Author Topic: Kids Advice to Parents  (Read 2417 times)

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Offline lizditz

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Kids Advice to Parents
« on: April 16, 2005, 01:29:00 AM »
Here is what I would like to hear from kids who have been sent to one or another program:

What could have been different in your life, so that these programs weren't in your life?  

*What could your parents have done differently?
*Where was the point that you wished you could have changed your own behavior?
*Anything else?
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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2005, 02:08:00 AM »
I could write something really long about this, but I'll pick a few things, I guess.

1.  I had some early childhood trauma for which I should have been in therapy, but I never had any.  My parents tried to take me to a Catholic Services family counselor, which ended up being a finger-pointing session directed at me.  Then they had me see a male psychologist, when they knew I hated adult males.  I refused to talk to him and played Tetris on his computer whenever I had to go see him.  He told my parents that I was all fucked up on drugs, so he couldn't help me.  But how was I so amazing at Tetris...?

2.  My parents were not that involved in my life, so I did what I wanted.  They didn't even know I was failing my classes for an entire year because they were so consumed with their own lives.  I have never been able to talk to my parents about important stuff.  I didn't even tell my mom when I got my period.  She was all like the mom on Carrie and shit.

3.  I know that my parents sent me away because they were worried about their reputation in the community.  They didn't want everyone to see me walking around with pink hair and telling little kids that Satan loves them.  (It was just a joke!  They never got my sense of humor...)  But anyway, in caring more about their reputation than my well-being, they ruined our relationship forever.

4.  My mom has apologized for sending me away, but my dad still refuses to believe he did anything wrong.  There will always be that to get in the way of any good relationship between us.

That's pretty much it.  Basically, I don't get parents who neglect their children's needs for years and then send them away to fix the problem.  Obviously I needed more of them, not less.  And to just leave me in a place with peple who were strangers to me and them...I can't understand it at all.  I would never do that to my daughter.[ This Message was edited by: The Liger on 2005-04-15 23:08 ]
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2005, 02:08:00 PM »
First of all, like most kids who landed up in Straight, I didn't have any major problems that required drastic treatment. My major problem was the Program.

Till I was around 12 or so, it was easy enough to behave like a good little honorary Seedling. That changed w/ puberty. The same routine--pretending I didn't care that everybody thought I was weird, that I was excluded and taunted daily at school, that I didn't have a total crush on the long haired guitar playing boy and that I was just peachy w/ the whole idea of never growing up--just became intolerable. I didn't want to be a good Seedling anymore so I started doing all the crazy things I'd heard over and over again at Open Meetings for all those years.

I used to "borrow" my brother's moped and take it out on the trails at the back of our neighborhood, all alone. Really pathetic. One day, I wrecked it and bent the front wheel. I would have had it repaired and back in place before my brother got home, but I burned my leg pretty badly on the tailpipe and had to call him for help getting home. I still repaired the thing, using my own money and riding my bike to the shop to get the replacement wheel. But that was a black mark--theft and sneakiness, sure signs in my mother's mind of impending druggiedome.

The major event that sealed it for me was another vehicular incident. I'd taken my dad's car out one night. Again, alone. My best friend (the other Seedling kid in the neighborhood) was supposed to go with me, but he fell asleep. I watched his dad carry him into his room from the window then tried to wake him. No dice. But here I was, out of the house w/ keys in hand so I decided to go anyway. Well, again I took the car off road and got it stuck in the sand. Walked home, returned the keys to my dad's bedstand and went to bed.

The police tried to tell him that I was probably the culprit (no sign of hot wire, nothing missing from the car, even the money on the console) but he had already decided that it was my friend. I couldn't let Steve take the fall for that, but I knew if I confessed I'd be on front row by the end of the day. So I wrote a note and ran away. That, of course, sealed it. Now I was a runaway and a car thief.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have done one thing differently. I would have tried harder to endear myself to the extended family and asked to move in w/ an aunt in another state. Or at least spend the summers away. Maybe I could have taken the pressure if I had a break from it once in awhile. But there was just no possible way for me to avoid getting put in the Program living w/ my mother. She bought into the propaganda hook line and sinker. Any sign of normal teenaged behavior was, in her mind, proof of drug addiction.

...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana
is its effect on the degenerate races.

Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »
I agree with the post from the liger. If a parent has been neglectful of a child and has basically set the child up for that life, then sending them to the program to "fix" their mistakes woudl be entirely wrong. However, my parents are extremely kind and very poen with me. My parents never neglected me. I had hard times wiht them growing up, but that was due to divorce and re marriage and that stuff, not their parenting skills. Before i went to the program, my paretns tried alot of different stuff to help me. differetn therapists wiht differetn tequniques, antidepressants, they tried talking to me, grounding me, ect. Nothing worked. Even after I woudl throw shit at my Mom and call her a bitch, she woudl slip a note under my door telling me she loved me and if I ever needed her for anything, talking or listening or whatever, she woudl be there. My mOm tried so damn hard to love me and help me it drained her. My Dad tried talking to me too. He tried helping in the best way he knew how which was to listen, but to no avail.

Honestly, I believe what happened happened just the way it was supposed to. Sure, i could not have gotten involeved wiht drugs, alcohol, dropping out of school, ect. But what happened happened and Im not ashamed of it. I needed to expereince everyhing I did, before, during, and after the program so I could be the person I am today.

I always knew I needed help. I was unhappy all the time, I was constantly thinking about my death, I was miserable. I didnt want to be that way, but it seemed like nothing was helping. But I always knew that if I didnt change, I would end up killing myself or doing something to land me in jail, or worse, I would just always feel unhappy.

Truthfully, I can say the program helped me. For those who went through horrible abusive programs, no wonder they hate them. I woud too. But I can say my program was not abusive and was not brainwashing and was helpful. Ive been out 5 years now almost and I have always felt that way.
Amanda

"I am one with all those who have ever suffered pain. I am learning something new- that it is necessary to be greatful for pain in order to learn anything from it."
-Arupa Chiarini
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2005, 04:09:00 PM »
Good question!

My parents - mother, father and step-father were all psychologists, Mum was a chartered Psych. with an MSc., dad was a ph.d as was my step dad. Between them they raised 9 kids! Most were successful at school, work and life in general. My brother and I started using drugs and drinking early on. We were always sneaky - stealing at a very early age, smoking, blowing shit up.
Sure, the parents were involved in career, relationships and lots of new age wierd shit (it was the 70s and 80s). I always felt loved by my mother, but I wanted to do what I wanted to do. By 16 I had a thriving drug sales business out of my parents house, drank and did drugs every day. Parents did an intervention and I was supposed to go to government treatment centre for 6 weeks. I said bye! They had no recourse but to let me go.
For the next 6 years I partied, did worse and worse crime, and rarely asked my parents for help (except when I got busted and had to go to court.) At 21 I checked into AARC, spent a year in treatment and have been sober for almost 13 years.
I was not ready to change my behavior until the week I got my assessment.

Dave
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2005, 07:08:00 PM »
My parents did not recognize that I was seriously mentally ill and in a whole lot of pain from it.

I can't really blame them for most of that.  The psychiatrists just didn't know as much about my illness as they do now.

The part where they did make mistakes was when they realized I was mentally ill and suicidal they asked me to "hang on" until they could afford treatment, for money reasons.  

I can sympathize, but that was really dangerous.

They didn't like my sexual behavior.  They didn't really have reason to know if they had gotten me effective treatment, correct diagnosis, right meds, that most of the behavior that bothered them would have just gone away---it was a symptom.

I guess my advice to parents is if your child is mentally ill and suffering, it's no time to stand on principle at the expense of your child.  A lot of people have various really weird beliefs about psychiatry.  If your kid is in pain, or dangerous, or just unable to function, you really have to put that first.  You should put any contrary preferences you have aside and take the time to find out what the current mainstream concensus is about diagnosis and treatment of that illness.

Yeah, at any given time there will be *something* that the mainstream scientific concensus has got dead wrong.  But there will be a lot it's got right, too.  And you can't be more qualified than the broad stream of all those well-meaning and very smart people who have made a life's study of the subject to tell which bits are wrong and which are right.

So if your kid is suffering, you go with the mainstream diagnosis and treatment, get second and even third opinions to confirm the dx and treatment recs. are reasonable, and you cross your fingers.

My parents are very religious people.  When I was growing up, sometimes they put their religious beliefs in making choices for me ahead of my well being.  Sometimes, because I had good reason to believe they *would* do that, I kept them in the dark and fed them bullshit as much as possible to protect myself.

Everybody has dearly held beliefs that are outside of the mainstream.

My advice to parents is that when your child is at stake, throw the belief book out the window and just do what it takes to take care of your kid---and pick the mainstream advice, because a lot of people have really fucked their kids up following one unusual belief or another, but very few people have really fucked their kid up following the mainstream advice that the mainstream considers to be the most responsible way to go.

My parents came close to really screwing up my life permanently with their fringe beliefs---which is another reason why I'm so tough on that when it comes down to cases and a kid's well-being is at stake.  Not his well-being over the little things, but his well-being in the big things.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2005, 07:10:00 PM »
er...consensus.

T.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2005, 08:27:00 PM »
Teach your parents well,
Their children's hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they pick, the one you'll know by.

Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you will cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2005, 09:59:00 PM »
Ginger,

What does "Seed sibling" mean?  (I hope the answer isn't so obvious that I feel like an idiot.)
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2005, 11:57:00 PM »
Come to think of it, it's an amalgam of Seed and Straight culture and lingo.

4/5 of my older brothers and sisters were in The Seed. There was no organized sibling group like Straight introduced in around the early `80's. But there as a sort of ad hoc sibling group by elimination. It was mutual. The "druggie culture" didn't want to have anything to do with a Seed family (including my best friend's dad, the cop) and we were not exactly allowed to associate w/ anybody not sanctified by The Seed. So, like it or not, kids who had older brothers and sisters in The Seed were our only safe friends. Only they weren't safe at all. They were perceived as such by our parents. But they might, at any time, turn on you and start telling tales either to save their own asses or because they'd succumbed to the brainwashing and truely thought they were saving the life of a dear friend.

Basically, I put that in my sig to show the depth of my experience. I didn't get the strip search and introduction to group till I was 15. But I was in the program in a very real way since I was about 6yo.

These are my people! I want to redeem them.

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2005, 08:13:00 PM »
Ok, now I get it.  Thanks for explaining.  Not to start a whole backlash of people defending AA, but it seems similar to people who grow up with parents or other family in AA.  They always feel like somebody's watching them...cause somebody always is.
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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2005, 07:08:00 PM »
There were parts in this article about Tranquility Bay that I thought were insightful regarding how Americans view parenting and teenagers:

http://nospank.net/tranq.htm

"These are classic Tranquility-parent feelings. For example, Mozingo believes his son had a serious drug problem before coming to Jamaica and Josh agrees. What was he taking? 'I was doing marijuana. I was doing cigarettes. Alcohol.' He looks disgusted with himself."

and

"Also striking is the assumption parents make of entitlement to their child's affection, as though this is a legal right. 'She's a neat kid, she really is,' a former student's mother says. 'She just didn't like us.'"

and

"Messy divorce and remarriage are the norm among these parents. Their expectations of loyalty from their children, though, suggest a gilt-edged ideal of American family life so brittle any rebellion or defiance is literally terrifying. This culture then creates its own logic - for once adolescence is criminalised, Tranquility becomes the obvious solution."

and what some TB residents said:

"'Oh, my relationship with my family was pretty bad. I just went to my room and avoided my parents. There was always arguments and stuff,' offers Pete. 'I was very angry with my parents, their divorce had a big influence on me. I'm not angry with them now, though. Not at all. I mean, I look at this as a punishment, obviously, but I deserved it. How I acted towards my parents.'"

and

"Susie is 16, from New York, and here 'because of having sex. Not going to school. It was my attitude. It wasn't, like, drugs. The problem was, me and my mom, we just didn't have a relationship. We could say how was your day, that was about it.' The possibility that this was a normal phase is adamantly rejected by Susie."

These places encourage parents to blame their children for all their problems.  I mean, how sad is that quote from the kid who said he was acting out over his parents divorce, but that he deserved to be sent there because of how he acted toward his parents.

So I guess the reason I put this here in this thread is that if parents are looking for a way to blame their kid and not themselves, it doesn't matter what they could have done differently.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2005, 11:24:00 PM »
The air arounf Tranquility Bay smells like marijuana  daily.

The locals smoke it outside the compound.
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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2005, 10:10:00 PM »
I'm not sure if anyone here has read this case:

State of Idaho v. Kelly Parkinson (1996)
128 Idaho 29

(If anyone wants the entire copy and can't get on Lexis or Westlaw, just email me.)

Anyway, Dr. Marcel Chappuis was an expert witness in this case.  A twelve-year-old girl accused the defendant (her aunt's husband) of sexual abuse.  The good 'ole Doc wanted to testify for the defense.  The court excluded his testimony, but here are some relevant portions as to what would have testified:

"We first address the offer of testimony by Dr. Chappuis that, in his opinion, Parkinson did not fit the psychological profile of sex offenders. Dr. Chappuis based his opinion on the results of an evaluation format which included the Minnesota Multiphasic Psychological Inventory (M.M.P.I.), a suicide risk assessment instrument and clinical interviews. The substance of Dr. Chappuis's testimony can be fairly characterized as follows: (1) the M.M.P.I., a generally accepted and widely used personality test, was administered  [*35]   [**653]  to Parkinson; (2) a clinical interview was conducted with Parkinson; and (3) as a result of that test and interview, Dr. Chappuis was of the opinion that Parkinson did not fit the profile of a sexual offender. We conclude that there was no showing of the reliability of Dr. Chappuis's [***13]  assessment technique sufficient to meet standards for admission of the testimony under I.R.E. 702. Although Dr. Chappuis testified that the M.M.P.I. is a standard and accepted psychological test, he presented no testimony from which it could be determined that the sex offender profile which Dr. Chappuis drew from that test, other tests, and clinical interviews had scientific validity or was reliable for the purpose for which it was offered in this case. For example, Dr. Chappuis did not: describe the personality or psychological characteristics that made up the profile; describe the methodology by which the profile was derived; state whether or how the technique had been tested; describe the profile's level of accuracy in distinguishing between offenders and non-offenders; or state whether the profile and the assessment technique utilized by Dr. Chappuis had attracted widespread acceptance within the psychological community. While we do not hold that evidence on each one of these points is essential to an adequate foundation for evidence of this type, the absence of evidence on any of these considerations prevents a conclusion that the proffered testimony would "assist the trier [***14]  of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue" as required for admission under I.R.E. 702."

So basically, the Doc wanted to say, "Well gee, Your Honor, he's just not that kind of guy."  (Defendant: "Your check is in the mail, Doc.")

Also:

"In an offer of proof, Dr. Chappuis was asked by defense counsel for his opinion "as to the general incidence of fabrications with regard to sexual allegations made by minors." Dr. Chappuis responded that in approximately twenty-five to thirty percent of the cases his office was involved in, the allegations were false. This opinion on the statistical incidence of false accusations of sexual abuse was based only on anecdotal information derived from Dr. Chappuis's personal experience as a therapist in Sandy, Utah, and as consultant to the Utah court system. Any potential inference of scientific reliability is belied by the very narrow information base and the lack of any scientific methodology underlying this estimate. Most importantly, Dr. Chappuis stated that he based his determination of which allegations were "false" upon the outcome of court proceedings against the accused perpetrator.  [***16]  "I assume if someone is acquitted or found innocent, then they are innocent," he said. The unreliability of Dr. Chappuis's estimate is patent. As the Idaho Supreme Court stated in State v. Schwartzmiller, 107 Idaho 89, 92, 685 P.2d 830, 833 (1984), HN6Go to the description of this Headnote."A not guilty verdict, standing by itself, can never be taken to establish that the charges brought were based on false allegations, since one may not be convicted of a crime unless a jury finds  [*36]   [**654]  beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the defendant.""

So he's saying that if you can't prove it in court, then you're lying!  

Parents, this is who your child confides in if they are being held at Tranquility Bay!  Someone who assumes that they are lying if they say they were sexually abused and cannot prove it.  And how could you really prove it at Tranquility Bay?

My opinion about Dr. Marcel Chappuis: He will never bite the hand that feeds him.  The bulk of his income is from his "work" at WWASP facilities.  He'll use his convenient "they're all liars" theory whenever it will earn him a buck or two.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2005, 11:50:00 PM »
Ginger,

What exactly was The Seed?  From your posts, I understand it to be a cult.  Is it still in existence today?  Was Straight affiliated with The Seed?  Just curious.
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