Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
What is up with Berryman
scottT:
To paraphrase Woody Allen (I think), just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.
I reached the conclusion very early on that a high percentage of posts were emanating from the loathsome organization(s), specifically to incite flame wars; or better yet, demonstrate to any parents who might be "on the fence" about BM programs, just see all the infighting, backbiting, and coarse language that goes on here and you can easily conclude that the program critics were "mere chattering pigs".
Too bad that so many were so eager to help them succeed by living down to the loathsome ones' expectations of us.
Perhaps in the new year, let's pray that the quality of discourse will be less directed to ad hominem attacks, and more conscious of the ultimate goal: shutting down as much of the gulag as possible -- one one program at a time, one school at a time or even one child at a time. Divisiveness and reciprocal slander is counterproductive to that goal.
Letting WWASPS, PURE, and their ilk fragment the opposition with their ludicrous threats of holding all parents "accountable" (including parents fighting against the organizations) based on some ivory-tower notion of ideological "purity" is just a short cut to surrender.
If the smear artists can scare away the people with the most direct familial and economic interests at stake (i.e., the check writing parents), they tear the guts out of the opposition. If so, all they'll have to beat will left be a few courageous individuals with highly elevated senses of self-righteousness, but not much in the way of juice.
Deborah:
I was going to ignore the anon questions, but since Carey has jumped in and is attempting to "associate" me with Jeff yet again, I'll say that the question has already been answered numerous times.
8/03/03
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=30
8/07/03
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#16446
8/8/03
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10
8/30/03 Jeff- How he came to be on my listserve
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10
9/1/03
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=50
Carey, I assume the lengthy explanation I gave you on 30 Aug was not enough. Like I said before, you'll just have to sit with your imaginings. If you have anything substantial to prove an association, post it up. I have championed your cause from the beginning, but your paranoia has interfered with your judgment, therefore why I have chosen to avoid interacting with you. I imagine you got a burr in your butt after this interaction:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=60
and decided I was suspect and began your campaign to prove some association with PURE or Jeff. You never answered the quesiton I posed back then. IF I was associated with either party, why would SS's email (the one you posted) state that Jeff was "monitoring" my listserve? You're like a snapping turtle. Let go. I'm not "one of them".
Ginger, as to Spots comment about me "putting my son in a program". Are you sure she wasn't talking about the Ms D Va- Deb? If she was referring to me, I missed it. Do you have a link? She may have been refering to this:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=30
In any event, I never placed either of my sons in a program. I do not advocate programs under any circumstances. I know 7 people personally who have been sent to warehousing facilities beginning in the late 40's to present, and not one of them had a positive experience.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10
http://fornits.com/wwf/22036
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&0
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=1047&forum=9
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 9&start=10
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2379&forum=9
Several people who frequently post here are members of my listserve- you all know who you are. Anyone want to step up to the plate on this one? Or would you prefer to remain silent for fear of being "associated" with the big bad wolf, who the majority of you vouched for; and certainly NOT ONE spoke against when his membership was posed? I left it to you folks, who were much further along in your research of the infamous industry and knew the personalities involved.
If it's any consolation Carey- as I imagine you'd give $12,500 to be part of my mysterious listserve- it is relatively inactive these days. The action is happening here. You are jutified in your anger and desire for justice, but you are irrational and unreasonable, you wouldn't be welcome, solely for that reason.
scottT:
Dear Deb,
Todays anon questions were not directed at you, but at the person making the accustions. As a regular around here, I already knew the answers.
My hope is simply that we can all dispense with the counter-productive McCarthy style tactics and stay focused on the ultimate issue of exposing the loathesome ones, rather than dilly-dallying about who has the most elevated sense of righteousness.
Carey:
Deborah,
Whether or not you like it, Jeff was a part, and could still be for all I know, a part of your "private" listserv. I can see why you would rather claim to not be associated with him, or why maybe you have now chosen to disassociate yourself from him. It really does not make any differnce to me one way or another. I was only responding to the anon posting. I knew there was/is an association at one time or another.
Really though, you should not get so worked up over the facts. Jeff was on your listserv, and that does denote an association. Whether it is past AND present, I don't know.
--- Quote ---loathesome oneS
--- End quote ---
Scott, who are the loathesome ones? Are they all ed cons and all programs? Or, are they the ones that you determine are loathesome? I am just trying to determine who the "judge and jury" is.
scottT:
Sorry Carey, I'm not going to give you an answer as to who exactly is "loathesome".
However, even though I can't "give" you an answer, may I suggest that you get out your list of all the loathesome people from whom you have accepted money, and perhaps you could find some who might want to "rent" my answer?
Who is loathesome? The answer, I suspect, is already in your hand.
[ This Message was edited by: scottT on 2003-12-24 14:29 ]
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