Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Apologia - Serious debate only, please!
Anonymous:
Addition response on cults. Ginger, the definition of cult is clear and can be stretched to a cult that dominates it's members - like Jim Jones. Those are the worst case scenario and when the word "cult" is used, it takes on a very negative connotation. If churches are cults, then that's not a bad thing. It also means to "cultivate" - to grow. Wwasp programs encourage individual thinking and choices.
The kid Corey that killed himself when his parents threatened to send him back confirms that the parents were not thinking "within" but using the program as a weapon. Does every parent get it that has gone to the seminars? Obviously not.
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2003-12-21 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Interesting phrase, "trust the program." Actually, I have personally never heard this, but I have heard "trust the process" in relation to the program.
--- End quote ---
And what does that phrase mean? Many different people have said that it's the stock response to any parent who expresses concern or doubt about any aspect of the program. Tell me, why should I discount their experience in favor of yours?
He that will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not, is a slave.
--William Drummond (1585-1640)
--- End quote ---
GregFL:
Of course you shouldn't believe every word on this board. This is part of the point that keeps flying over your head.
This board is OPEN for opinions. If your kid in the program tries to state an opinion that is contrary to what is expected of him or to voice critisim of the program, he is in big trouble. He is forced to act, look, and behave in a way that is predetermined by a group and often contrary to his actual personality given to him by his genetics and his life experiences. This is one of
many things that makes the program cultish.
You program apologist really don't wanna hear anything but what you already believe to be true after you witness the "miracle" of your changed kid. This is why I mostly bailed from this conversation early.
And confession? You compare program confession to catholic religious confession? How would you like to for example, be told in church that in order to see god you must confess your innermost secrets in front of the whole church and then you admitted to a homosexual expericence. Two months later they stood you up in front of the church and called you a faggot and took turns yelling and screaming at you for two hours straight until you cried and broke, then told you your were worthless before you were lucky enough to be saved by them?
What you people need, you adults that make excuses for the CEDU/seed model programs, is a good six months on the front row of one of these programs Then come back here and share your knowledge because as it stands, you are nothing more than a parrot, an infomercial for your *fill in the blank* program. You really are clueless to what it is like to go thru thought reform.
"NOBODY LIKED YOU ON THE STREETS. YOU ARE A BIG BABY, NOBODY WANTS YOU,NOBODY EVER LIKED YOU, FUCK, YOU COULDN"T EVEN DO IT WITH A COKE BOTTLE"
screamed at a crying 13 year old girl in front of 700 kids in group, during a come down on session in the St Pete Seed, as reported in "these are new times" 1973, and witnessed by GregFL.
Now, I don't remember the exact words used, but you get the idea
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2003-12-21 12:49 ]
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2003-12-21 10:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
The kid Corey that killed himself when his parents threatened to send him back confirms that the parents were not thinking "within" but using the program as a weapon. Does every parent get it that has gone to the seminars? Obviously not. "
--- End quote ---
Well, from the point of view of an outside observer, WWASP seems to encourage parents to use the warranty as a weapon. That's what the "Exit Plan" is all about. And no, WWASP didn't invent that concept either. That's a standard part of the Program going back to the `70's. It ammounts to a harsh ultimatum; comply with the program or get kicked out of the family.
I got the same ultimatum when I was 18, sitting in the intake room at the LIFE program. I took option B w/ no regrets. But you should know that my mom really, really meant it! In over 20 years, she has never once called just to say hi, how are you. Never once sent a personal letter, just the obligatory holliday cards and doesn't know her grandchildren at all.
When my brother returned from military service in `71, he was given the ultimatum; sign yourself into The Seed or leave the family. He tried it for about 4 months, I think, and finally gave up, left his little brothers in the Program and joined our older sister, who was attending college in Tallahassee.
And that kid Corey is not the first, and probably won't be the last, to resort to desperate measures when faced with return to the Program.
You discard all of the claims of abuse with the relativist fallacy that all troubled teens will say anything to avoid getting help. You must know that anyone who's being tortured will also say just about anything to avoid the torture. How do you tell the difference? You don't, that's how. You simply discard out of hand any claim by anyone, no matter how credible, if it doesn't match "your experience".
Tell ya' what, friend. You sign yourself into the Talbott Center and I'll go to a parent seminar. Then we'll both have some firsthand experience to talk about. While you're there, you just keep hold onto the thought, like life itself, that this too shall pass. That's your best shot at coming out the other end somewhat sane.
Have lots of good fun! And remember! Don't complain about anything that happens to you or about anything you wittness while you're there! That would only be manipulation, right?
Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly enjoyable to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-step groups.
--Chaz Bufe
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
I love Ginger and Greg! They have the power to change hearts and minds and are doing so with wisdom, care and consideration. These are the ingredients (with a dash of humor for good cheer) that will raise public awareness about the plight of a generation of America's youth who once called one of these coercive thought control hellholes HOME.
:tup:
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