WE Got HIM !!!!!!!

[Froderik]

Democracy is a beautiful thing, except for that part about letting just any old yokel vote.

Confession: That was me, the intent being to inject a little humor into this thread. Glad you liked it, SyN...I got it here:

http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/language/kids-quotes.html

[Anonymous]

The best band to ever come out of LA was The Doors.

[Marina]

Brazil is not an example of a good economy... I never said it was. But America has been going down since Bush has been in control, that's all I'm saying. I haven't heard of unemplyment nearly as much as after Bush took over. Forget Brazil, I'm not getting into Brazil cause you guys get rich by exploiting our natural resources and I don't wanna get into that (although America's social issues have been getting closer and closer to the Brazilian ones).
   
    It's not about "where can you sign up for that", dude, it's about paying more attention to the world around you. Be aware of your surroundings, what do you think Bush is doing to the WORLD? Is he really "saving the world" from terrorism or is he killing innocent ppl to get the oil? Ask yourselves this question.

   Forget Brazil, I'm pretty sure that's not your main corncern anyways. Think of America and where it stands in the world today. Is that where you want to be? Do you think it's fair what your president has been doing to the world?

[Antigen]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =22&Sort=D

If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit  people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good?  Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?

--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-18 09:00:00, Carmel wrote:

I will briefly mention the horrific damage we are doing to our own country by practically eliminating the possibility of decent public education.....gotta fund Saddams retirement pension. Teachers are being cut, supplies being cut, school food is horrendous....what about our children? And their children? What legacy are we gonna leave them besides reels and reels of live news coverage?

Carmel, ya' know how much I like you, right? So much I'm looking forward to hashing this one out with you cause I know you'll cus me, you know I'll let it roll off and we both know we'll still be friends afterward, right?

Awright.

I don't think we could have reached this state of affairs without compulsory public schooling. Before such a thing was widespread in our society, America was one of the most literate countries on the planet. On paper, we still are. But they've moved the bar. 100% literacy, by the new math, means you can read and understand a TV guide. By the old standard, some yokel in Kenya is a lot more literate than most of us are. They may not be able to read and write about it. But they can discuss world issues as they effect them in at least 2 or three languages and several dialects and do it comfortably and intelligently.

Just check out the distinguished James Shikwati
http://isil.org/resources/fnn/2003summe ... talks.html

I'm not suggesting, above, that Mr. Shikwati is a yokel. I was actually thinking of a kid I've known for a few years who landed here at age 14 from Kenya, where he had been regarded as an adult. That was about 6 or 8 years ago. Tonight, we were just discussing debugging C code and his and my daughter's turbulant past. I'm sending him a copy of http://www.libertybookshop.us/mall/Unde ... istory.htm I've read articles, essays, reviews and quotes from it for years now. If someone wanted to send me a Christmas gift, I wouldn't return it. I'd read it and then release it into the wild via http://bookcrossing.com/

Anyway, I don't think our public schools are really failing. I think they're succeeding splendidly at their purpose. That's why my kids don't have to go. I like them wild and unschooled, just as they are.

The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions.  The hypothalamus controls the "Four F's": 1. fighting;  2. fleeing;  3.feeding; and  4. mating.
-- Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course

[Antigen]

Marina, I'm right with you, except for one thing. I sometimes use "A vote for Büsh is a vote for America's Fürhor!" in my signature. That's only because he's an icon for a certain group of people. Not that I really believe this one man, or even just he and his close cronies, are capable of doing much of anything. Hell, give any of them 3 days food and water and hunting gear, set them down in some rural area, and by the fourt day, they will have robbed the nearest gas station.

It's not just this man, or this administration. It's a long term plan that went into full swing right around the turn of the 20th Century.

Most Americans really do not support what our government does. Like the Germans during WWII, most of us simply refuse to believe any of it could be true. Like Germany just prior to WWII, there is growing dissent. Just don't start bombing us yet, OK? There's still hope for the pen.

It takes a village idiot to believe that a family needs instruction from the government to raise a child.
-- Anonymous homeschooler

[Marina]

Ginger, I have to agree with you about the American educational system. When I was in the States, I got sick of having to answer to numerous questions such as:
 "Is Spanish your 1st language"?
  "Do you live on cabans on top of trees"?
 "So you're from the capital of Brazil? I've always wanted to go to Buenos Aires".

  Dude, was that annoying or what?

But then again, I remember we had only one year of World History and three years of American Social Studies. Of course we can't blame the citizens for not knowing much about international affairs, it's all in the way things are taught to them. Ppl who are well informed about the world in the US are ppl who actually take their own inniciative to do their own research because the educational system won't help them at all.

It's a shame that when you travel to South America or Europe, most ppl who's been to school can communicate in at least one foreign language and in the States ppl don't feel the need to learn new languages because the school doesn't encourage them.  

It's a shame cause the US offers a big variety of resources of information. You can find many libraries and museums, the best bookstores, universities, etc.

The question is "What can you do to change that"? Enlighten me cuase I don't know the answer to this question.

[Antigen]

Eliminating compulsory public education would be a good start. Repealing the income tax would go a lot further.

I think our big problems started w/ the Industrial Revolution. Most people don't know this anymore, but Rosavelt regarded Joseph Stalin with great affection and open admiration. "Uncle Joe" some ppl called him back then.

Like every revolution, this one has begun to eat it's own young. It's time for another. And I sincerely hope it's civil, not international "war" and that, like the American Revolution against the British Crown, it's mostly mind games, very little real military conflict.

You have rights atecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/rulebook.html' target='_new'>John Adams

[Froderik]

The best band to ever come out of LA was The Doors.

Hey! I forgot about them, that hey were from L.A. I'd have to agree with you there...Well, we could say that Fear was the best punk band to ever come out of L.A., fair enough? And oh yeah - X was an incredibly good band too...

[ This Message was edited by: Froderik13 on 2003-12-18 18:55 ]

[Froderik]

It's not just this man, or this administration. It's a long term plan that went into full swing right around the turn of the 20th Century.

Most Americans really do not support what our government does. Like the Germans during WWII, most of us simply refuse to believe any of it could be true. Like Germany just prior to WWII, there is growing dissent. Just don't start bombing us yet, OK? There's still hope for the pen.

 :wstupid: I'm with NOT stupid, that is...

[Marina]

You're right, I too believe there's hope for the Americans. I'm just wondering what the fuck is Bush still doing in the White House?

Were there any attempts to impeach him?

Froderik, the Doors is definitelly the best band that ever came out of LA and one of the top on my list of best bands ever! I just don't see how the Doors ended up in this Bush- Hussein conversation, but anyways...

[Antigen]

Well, here's what I think. Last post, I refered to the American Revolution against the Crown. In those days, the Sun never set on the British Empire. I know it's so because I have a beautiful Pusser's Rhum bottle with all kinds of wonderful daily prayers and slogans from that era of history. (Also says "To the with that blows, the ship that goes, and the lass who loved a sailor")

Anyway, we had big trouble when the Crown tried to prohibit Americans from minting and using our own currency. The tax acts really put some people over the edge. But they had been teetering there for a very long time due to creeping encroachment on their liberties.

But even that had not been the beginning of it. All over the world, Brittish colonies were falling into chaos and revolt.

We solved the problem with the Brittish Crown, not by cutting off their heads or storming the castles like the French did with their royalty problem. We just made them more-or-less irrelavent.

I think the same thing will happen here. There are signs of it cropping up all over the place. We're not going to storm the capitol or carry off a revolutionary coupe. I think we're just going to quit paying Federal taxes and quit following Federal mandates, thereby relegating those bozos inside the beltway to the drunken uncle status they have so richly earned.

The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled.
-- Plutarch

[Carmel]

Actually Ginger, I really dig your point of view.  I failed to see deeper in my post...I think I was looking for one of the more obvious reasons why the gov't ISNT interested in our safety and well-being currently.  What with all this patriotism and defending the American way and so forth...you think it might be a little easier to look at our system in place, and see how we are strangling it in the name of war-mongering (flawed as that system may already be) But, you hit it on the head....I totally agree on both points...school and taxes.  Dont even get me started on standardized testing.....

Another good point is the cultural perspective that is gained in other countries....people are aware that the world is a bigger place than just Cleveland or Wichita.  In smaller countries, its almost a daily necessity to be able to function under the auspices of different cultures....or so I would think.

No cussin here sister! You da MAN!....er...uh...yeah....

[Antigen]

Well shit! I was looking forward to a good debate. Damn! ::alieneyesa::

If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs,
you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors,
shall all become wolves.  It seems to be the law of our general
nature, in spite of individual exceptions.


http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787

[SyN]

yeah frod thats a funny link, thanks.
SyN