General Interest > Feed Your Head
What Are You Looking At?
Xelebes:
--- Quote from: "ajax13" --- The temperance movements arose in the Anglo countries generally, not in the European nations that experienced revolts in 1848.
--- End quote ---
True. Misread a bit. It was a portion of the Chartists (1838 and on) who pushed the temperance as a demonstration of responsibility, but the decade prior had people deciding to give up drink.
ajax13:
--- Quote from: "Xelebes" ---
--- Quote from: "ajax13" --- The temperance movements arose in the Anglo countries generally, not in the European nations that experienced revolts in 1848.
--- End quote ---
True. Misread a bit. It was a portion of the Chartists (1838 and on) who pushed the temperance as a demonstration of responsibility, but the decade prior had people deciding to give up drink.
--- End quote ---
So the fact that the Seed was experimental and government-funded and government-initiated and opened in 1970 supports your claim that the experiments stopped in the sixties? And your statement about the Chartists somehow supports your claim that the temperance movement can be equated to government research into behaviour modification?
Xelebes:
See, I don't know how experimental it was. It had its funding from the government, yes, but can you tell me what the hypothesis was? What were the controls on the experiment that differentiated it from the previous experiment/programs like Synanon. See, I'm missing something. How does a charlatan like Art Baker become privy to the experimental data and funding that is accessible to the military-scientific community? Art Baker had no prior scientific experience and had no prior military experience. The only way I can feasibly imagine that he got access to the funding was that he sold to the stringholders of the purse that his program worked, lifting directly the techniques used in Paradise House and mishmashing them a bit to come up with something that would appear experimental, but truly was nothing more than charlatanry - nothing different than what we see with attachment therapy. And if you sell it well enough to the stringholder, you can get a lot of fuzzy deals that ensure that the operation can work in secrecy.
Dr. Davidson's Elan is a bit different. Ricci was a charlatan, but we don't know much about Dr. Davidson.
Xelebes:
--- Quote from: "ajax13" ---And your statement about the Chartists somehow supports your claim that the temperance movement can be equated to government research into behaviour modification?
--- End quote ---
The Chartists do offer some insight into the relationship between alcohol and political power. It's not direct, but you cannot deny the mix of factors that lead to the outright silliness that we face with when dealing with alcohol and substance abuse.
ajax13:
--- Quote from: "Xelebes" ---See, I don't know how experimental it was. It had its funding from the government, yes, but can you tell me what the hypothesis was? What were the controls on the experiment that differentiated it from the previous experiment/programs like Synanon. See, I'm missing something. How does a charlatan like Art Baker become privy to the experimental data and funding that is accessible to the military-scientific community? Art Baker had no prior scientific experience and had no prior military experience. The only way I can feasibly imagine that he got access to the funding was that he sold to the stringholders of the purse that his program worked, lifting directly the techniques used in Paradise House and mishmashing them a bit to come up with something that would appear experimental, but truly was nothing more than charlatanry - nothing different than what we see with attachment therapy. And if you sell it well enough to the stringholder, you can get a lot of fuzzy deals that ensure that the operation can work in secrecy.
Dr. Davidson's Elan is a bit different. Ricci was a charlatan, but we don't know much about Dr. Davidson.
--- End quote ---
No doubt you are missing something, see, and no doubt you don't know how experimental it was, see. Your statement that what was done in the Seed is no different than what is seen with Attachment Therapy shows a distinct lack of familiarity with either the Seed or Attachment Therapy, or both. Buchmanism is not used in attachment therapy at all, yet it is the stated basis of the Seed/Straight/Kids/AARC model. The techniques of turning peers into masters and fostering a culture of betrayal and alienation are not part of Attachment Therapy. Nor is rewarding comlpiance with power over other clients. You have picked the wrong venue to make pronouncements about these phenomena given the little knowledge that you have. Nobody likes a tourist.
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