Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Teen Challenge
I personally escaped this Cult
none-ya:
If you got clean you did it. If you do drugs you do them.
Unless you hear voices in your head, telling you what to do,
all the choices you make are your own. Explain secular sobriety. Besides, I know plenty of christians that drink. Including clergy. Me,I'm just is uncomfortable in a bar as I am in church.
TC_Saved_Me:
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---If you got clean you did it. If you do drugs you do them.
Unless you hear voices in your head, telling you what to do,
all the choices you make are your own. Explain secular sobriety. Besides, I know plenty of christians that drink. Including clergy. Me,I'm just is uncomfortable in a bar as I am in church.
--- End quote ---
You can make all the points you want about secular sobriety and Christians that drink (even I'll have a glass of wine every now and again).
What I don't think you can do though, is tell me how I got clean. I know how I got clean, and it wasn't by my own strength.
none-ya:
Sounds like you don't take any credit for your successes. But it does sound like you take all the blame for your failures. You can't have it both ways. Besides if you drink wine you're not really clean.
Samara:
Yeah, that's a real road block for me in terms of buying the Christian perspective of "spirituality." All credit goes to God; all blame goes to people. Of course in secular programs it is all credit goes to Program. The Program is God.
It is hard to buy God as an intervening God anyway, at the very least. You know that saying by Epicurus, something like, "If God is willing to prevent evil, but unable, then he is not omnipotent. If he is able to prevent evil, but not willing, than he is malevolent. If he is unable and unwilling then is he God?
The free will argument is BS. If I was a bystander to evil, than I bear culpability.
TC_Saved_Me:
--- Quote ---It is hard to buy God as an intervening God anyway, at the very least. You know that saying by Epicurus, something like, "If God is willing to prevent evil, but unable, then he is not omnipotent. If he is able to prevent evil, but not willing, than he is malevolent. If he is unable and unwilling then is he God?
--- End quote ---
I think it is wonderful that you are challenging Christian theology. Of course it is counterproductive, though, if you only challenge these beliefs for the sake of debate. It would be a glorious thing if you could study the Bible to prove Christian doctrine wrong. (I know many people who study human philosophy and historical occurances to attempt to debunk the existence of an omniscent, omnipotent God.)
This is an interesting conversation. Very deep. I love it!
--- Quote ---But it does sound like you take all the blame for your failures. You can't have it both ways. Besides if you drink wine you're not really clean.
--- End quote ---
There was a day that I carried alot of bitterness about the way that my parents raised me, but that didn't get me anywhere. Like you said, I make my own choices: I chose drugs, I chose to receive Christ into my life to free me from my addiction.
Whether you think I'm not really clean or not because I choose to drink a glass of wine once in a while is a matter of opinion. I'm sure there are other people who wouldn't label me an addict because of that.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version