Author Topic: HR 911, uggh, again....  (Read 11452 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2011, 05:32:47 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 01:06:32 AM by Anonymous »

Offline wdtony

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2011, 05:49:30 AM »
Off the subject....just watched a movie tonight circa 1983 about a secret women's prison. Besides the obvious steel bars and dark environment, the women were saying the same things we would say in the program, like I didn't know places like this could exist...and you don't get visits so you can't complain....and you don't get out of here so get used to it.

It got me thinking that no matter what bill or law is passed, somewhere there will always be private prisons for kids.

Well, in the end, just like in most 80's flicks, some great ninja dude came in and saved everyone even though they had guns and he had an incredibly long leg that could knock the guns out of their hands at light speed.

But no ninja ever came to KHK. And god did I wish someone would blow the place up...I didn't care if I was in it at the time.....just something to end the constant torment. I was locked up when I got older, and that state of mind is a lot different than a naive 14 year old. Jail was a cakewalk comparably, albeit boring.

Maybe HR 911 should be titled HR Ninja and have a provision for a tough guy with a lightening quick, extra long leg to enforce the federal law.

A Very insightful individual recently wrote, "Being right isn't always enough - because sometimes you have to fight for it. There's no point in being right if you don't fight for it."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2011, 05:54:16 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 01:06:14 AM by Anonymous »

Offline wdtony

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2011, 06:20:31 AM »
Ok, one more post and then it's off to bed for me.

Yes a big story like that would be good. But there have been many big stories pertaining to programs and abuse. Just recently, the 2 day Mark Levine radio shows, CNN report: Ungodly Discipline, and the 20/20 report on abuse in IFB churches.

The two judges in PA that got 28 and 17.5 years....hopefully more indictments to come.

But my point is, there have been a lot more reports on this issue than in the past. And I welcome any other big story that draws attention to this. It is absolutely newsworthy nationally if not internationally.

How about a polygraph duel between survivors and program directors? Let's put that dare on the table. I'll do it. if it's good enough for Maury Povich, it's good enough for me. Great publicity stunt to draw attention. (:
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Offline none-ya

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2011, 08:43:35 AM »
wdtony wrote;
"How about a polygraph duel between survivors and program directors? Let's put that dare on the table. I'll do it. if it's good enough for Maury Povich, it's good enough for me."

A polygraph machine and a boxing ring!
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Offline blombrowski

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2011, 09:02:05 AM »
First of all, passage of H.R. 911 in any form is a serious uphill battle in this Congress.  Miller can introduce his bill, without any threat of it actually being passed Tom Harkin in the Senate can introduce his version, and may have hearings in the Senate sometime next year.  More publicity gets generated, programs are put on notice, and the major concern that an actual bill gets passed where people in the general public feel like the problem has been solved never happens.

In the best political climate for passage of such legislation, the best we can hope for is something that will make it impossible for clearly abusive programs or abusive providers to move from state to state or reopen under a new name.

For example, a bill that could keep Salem Children's Home closed, but do absolutely nothing to a Cross Creek Academy.

Illinois is apparently a state that has no regulation on programs that are entirely private pay.  Salem Children's Home is the type of program that would be required to be licensed and inspected, that currently isn't.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2011, 09:04:12 AM »
I wish I wouldn't have gotten involed is this.It was easier before. HR911=good. TTI= bad.Right? Read that godamn bill (I guess just like any other bill) You have to be a lawyer to make sense of it.
So,bill passes - YAY- the good guys are happy!
So,bill fails - YAY- Che is happy!

it's a win,win...........
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Offline blombrowski

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2011, 10:01:48 AM »
Just some other thoughts about the reality of licensing.  I say this as someone who works for a licensing agency and is involved in program oversight, but not the actual renewal of licenses (i.e. we take complaints and investigate and involve the certification team if need be, but are not the ones doing annual inspections).  And has seen first hand the practice of our own agency as well as other agencies in the state.

First of all, the relationship between provider and licensor tends to be cozy.  Not cozy in an illegal, money under the table kind of way, but in the going to the same church, kids go to the same school kind of way.  Licensors have more of a personal relationship with the providers than with the kids, so in the event of a he said, she said situation, who do you think they're going to be inclined to side with?

Second, and this is particularly true with child welfare agencies, but similar dynamics play out with the mental health and juvenile justice systems.  Licensing agencies rely on the capacity that bad programs provide.  For instance we have a private psychiatric hospital in a NYC suburb that has been under threat to be closed for at least the last 4 years, that seems to take almost exclusively foster care kids from NYC.  How is that?  Our foster care system can't find enough foster parents to take in kids who have special needs, so they need the hospital beds to keep them off the street or out of the shelters.  As long as they're in the hospital they're not the agency's problem.  The hospital does just enough to stay open, because an entire system has made the decision that it's better that a youth receive substandard care in a psychiatric hospital, then be left in the community to their own devices.  If something bad happens in the hospital, it'll be the hospital that gets blamed.  If something happens in the community, the foster care agency has liability.

Third, keeping in the foster care realm.  I've come to the conclusion that there's a subconscious calculus that plays in the mind of child protective workers - is this a child that's more likely to be killed or harder to place.  Meaning lots of minority infants who have parents who aren't necessarily abusive, but there are serious concerns they may neglect their child to death, who they feel like they can find foster placements for get placed, but teenagers getting beaten by their parents don't.  Assuming they meet that threshold, as the case worker is my liability higher if I remove the child or if I keep the child in the home.  Translation - (Rich white abusive parents sue when their child is taken away by CPS, poor black parents don't).  The threat of a lawsuit is enough to outweigh the worry of a front page story in the New York Post.

The MBA case perfectly illustrates these realities.  DHS took action that they probably wouldn't have in the first place because they didn't have any of their own youth in Mount Bachelor.  But when Aspen retaliated with a lawsuit, and when Aspen got parents to threaten to sue DHS as well, DHS got cold feet and settled.

Any state licensing regime will have those realities.  And there are in some cases ways to get around the lack of licensing by going to the local Protection and Advocacy organization in your state.  

The solution is to have a credible enough threat so that the licensing agencies fear the exposure that you can bring to bear on them over the exposure from the programs.  But to do that you have to be credible, believable, and organized, and have a very good answer for when those pro-program parents show up with their "success stories".

In my next installment I will provide specific program examples and how to structure your advocacy to be most effective.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2011, 11:01:35 AM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
Froderik, I agree with the statement about leaving old thought systems and people in place. That is why I must side with those who don't want to improve programs, but those who want to close them. Protesting PFC taught me most of what I need to know about negotiating with program owners. If any programs are to exist, I believe it should be with the right people with good intentions and proper regulation. An open door policy should not be an option, but it should be the law when dealing with teens and treatment.

I suppose the Nazi's are a good example of why there must be a regime change when it comes to troubled teen programs. You don't regulate the nazi's and hope the prison camps are regulated by peer review or self regulation. You take the nazi's to Nuremberg trials and hope they don't make it to South America.

Well said.  That's exactly what I was getting at with that quote.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2011, 11:06:07 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Froderik

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2011, 11:07:56 AM »
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
I think the industry needs a big story to draw attention. I think that's why the Jared Laughner story is being played down. I believe the woman he shot supported the program he was in

We speculated here that he was some kind of Manchurian candidate, but that's a little out there. I think they abused him in the program he was in and it got him to crack

Of course that's just an opinion, but the fact they won't even tell us what program he was in lends it creedance

 ::OMG::  ::OMG:: Holy shit dude...that right there is HUGE...

Perhaps one of the media folks (like maybe you, Mark Levine) would be interested in opening THAT can of worms for the American people to fathom..??

 :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :rocker:  :rocker:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2011, 12:50:45 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 01:04:46 AM by Anonymous »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2011, 02:07:34 PM »
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« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 07:41:48 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Froderik

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2011, 02:24:59 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
I think the industry needs a big story to draw attention. I think that's why the Jared Laughner story is being played down. I believe the woman he shot supported the program he was in

We speculated here that he was some kind of Manchurian candidate, but that's a little out there. I think they abused him in the program he was in and it got him to crack

Of course that's just an opinion, but the fact they won't even tell us what program he was in lends it creedance

 ::OMG::  ::OMG:: Holy shit dude...that right there is HUGE...

Perhaps one of the media folks (like maybe you, Mark Levine) would be interested in opening THAT can of worms for the American people to fathom..??

 :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :nods:  :rocker:  :rocker:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: HR 911, uggh, again....
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2011, 02:44:40 PM »
.....
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 07:43:34 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.