Author Topic: the seed forum & my feelings  (Read 2020 times)

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Offline antiseed

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the seed forum & my feelings
« on: March 05, 2011, 02:23:21 PM »
i discovered this site by accident a little over a week ago after coming across marc polonsky's recounting of his time & experience while on the "program". reading his story brought chills to my body & awakened many memories,feelings & emotions i had either forgotten or chose to lock away. when i accessed fornits & the seed forum section i spent many hours reading & discovering that i was not alone with how i felt & the experiences i had while in the seed.[i was in the cleveland program 77 to 78].i will always refer to my time there as the DARK TIME in my life.my first reaction when i joined fornits was to lash out at the people responsible for my being there.my attacks were on staff & art & also my mother & stepfather who made the decision to sentence a 13 year old non drug user to that living hell. i constantly perused all of the topics & it started to consume my thoughts & also my actions. i then realized that the seed [by way of my own mind & actions] had once again taken control of me & i can not & will not let that happen again. I AM BETTER THAN THAT. while on the program,i thought i was the only one who feared getting called on in group & most likely getting ridiculed by my supposed peers,i thought i was the only one who was constantly hungry but was afraid to ask for anything more for fear i would be percieved as selfish,greedy or ridiculed in some way,i thought i was the only one who hated going back to school because now i was constantly ridiculed by my peers there also,[i never did get used to being called a "narc"],i thought i was the only one who while living away from home,could not wait until the time i could lay in bed w my own thoughts & not fear being "stood up" in group or getting yelled at to "get out of my head". the program did nothing for me other than fill me with feelings of insecurity,fear & taught me to hide my true feelings & deal with my emotions internally which to this day,does hinder me in some life areas.yes,i do harbor ill will towards my mother & stepfather,for placing me there when i am sure there were other ways to deal w a child with "behavior problems" & i also harbor ill will with art & the staff for the things that were done to a scared 13 year old child & not realizing or possibly not caring what the long term effects would be.i have since realized that the way to deal with this situation is not to attack those i hold responsible but to use this forum to discuss my experiences & hopefully find some answers or possibly enlighten someone else that "they arent the only one with these same feelings". it has definately helped me by being able to sound this out knowing others will read about my trials & tribulations with this experience. i will periodically refer back to this thread of discussion & add things about my experiences as i remember them or they wake me up at night in a cold sweat. this experience happened for me 34 years ago & i now can say ,i do not need to remain annonymous because i DID NOTHING WRONG. thank you for reading my ramblings....Harold Katz
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline none-ya

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 09:20:32 PM »
Dude, We've all been there. I found this place like you did through Marc Polonski I was in the St. Petersburg seed In 1973 @ age 17.From the moment I got there I took on the "prisoner of war" mentality. All I thought about was escape, (and of course food). There were younger kids there also.When I saw how they treated a 10 year old,who like yourself, had never done any drugs,And the profanity they hurled at him,trying to get him to admit to all these terrible things he'd never done (hell he wasn't old enough to have done half of what they accused him of) , I knew there wasn't any good ever gonna' come of this place. My first week there I split (running) from my oldcommers house, and they ran me down. My oldcommer and 2 other newcommers! Hell they could have split too. But I was caught ,dragged back, and stood up the next day and I thought good, I'd rather be in jail. But no such luck. So when I finnaly made it home,some 4 1/2 months later I managed a clean split. SO in my mind I WON!. You may think you had it real bad in the seed,but you should take the time and read the threads about places like Elan, and others. The hell they put these kids through is sickening. Yeah the seed was bad for me 38 yaers ago,but iv'e said it before, THE SEED NEVER CONTROLED ME THEN ,OR EVER!  Those people don't rate enough to be in your dreams. Make peace with yourself,after all you didn't belong there either.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 11:32:03 AM by none-ya »
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Offline none-ya

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 11:30:11 AM »
Quote
Stack said
"The issue now is the new kids that are dragged in places that may even be worse!
I say don't forgive. Don't forget!"

AMEN BROTHER!
CAN I GET A WITNESS??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline justonemore

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 08:44:38 PM »
I'd tell you my story, but you've already heard it. and lived it, i'll bet. My induction to the seed was under false accusation and planted evidence. Although I had smoked marijuana, et al, i could have passed a drug test when I entered. I didn't so much " quit drugs" as I just lost interest. I thought to myself that one more 3am conversation about Jimi Hendrix, I'm gonna jump! oddly enough, decades later I heard a Guitarist who used the same technique,as Jimi, except he turned it into music, instead of an awful squalling.
one of the worst things, was the fear for those around you. once I'd been identified  as a seed inductee, teachers I'd known and liked would not meet my eye, would not speak. friends wouldn't either.
it was decades later that I learned that those teachers jobs had been threatened, that as afraid as i was of harming my friends by association, they were equally afraid of harming me. It is the perfect extortion racket. it was decades before i learned that my brother set me up, to protect himself.
However there's a lesson in this.They weren't after my brother, or pot, or even saving souls. (Demon,Demon Rum!)
What they wanted was a cadre of 'true believers'. In the aftermath, i've lived a high risk life, antidote, i suppose.
There are quite a few who say they have never been broken. Well, I was and I wasn't. My memory from those times,( normally eidetic) is shot full of holes. Sometimes I can only corroborate my memory by testimony of people who post here. Like the kid who ran full tilt through a second story plate glass window, or the kids on the verge of adult prison who wanted to go back to prison. Thought it was a better deal to serve their time than be property of the seed till they were 21.  Stuff like that.
I think that it's important to remember that 'what happened' is a physiologic process, not a matter of courage. After all, if i stick a needle in your eye, will you re-act?  If you don't, you are dead.  If you are here now, if it upsets you still, i propose that neither you nor your conscience is dead. having lived a high- risk life* largely as a consequence ( naww, it don't take a hell of a lot of thought to follow through on that one! ) The point is, recognize evil, ( the human problem) deal with it. How? I don't know. But many and many, those of peculiarly, have faced it, and face it still.

*Occupationally, shot, shot at, stabbed, near about blown up, present at detonation, etc. Met 'the dead guy' near about 50 times, had folks offer to kill me more than once, ( they were sincere, at least), actually did have a price on me. ( 1500$ to put me in the hospital,no killing) ( what! I'm worth a nice stereo?)
J.O.M.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline none-ya

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 10:19:16 AM »
JOM, I'm shocked that you didn't try to shoot your way out of the seed!! All you had to do was make it a couple of blocks and caught a bus,or maybe even take some hostages, yeah that's it. "I'll let everyone go when they let all the kids out of the seed".  

yeah,that's the ticket.............
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline justonemore

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 07:40:06 PM »
NoneYa..(everybody's a critic)
Yeah, I know, it sounds fantastic, it sounds concocted. even to me many days. Let me tell you though, that every day you've 'met the dead guy" or had to face Bugs Bunny with a knuckle knife and a pair of nun-chaku and a an ashtray full of roach and you without a firearm,( not that you'd want to kill the guy, but you'd sure like to be able to.) is a hard day. It makes for a lousy "Hi honey how was your day." Not supportive of relationships or normal life in any sense.My last year in the business I ran 53 calls between 5pm Christmas eve and midnight Christmas day. Not a nurturing life style. ( I'm not a nurturing guy, so I reckon it's alright.)
I'm an autodidact, so I have the temerity to say so. Only an autodidact would.
Jeez, I can hear you not laughing, what a tough house!
Just as the seed put me beyond the pale of common experience, so my occupational experience took me farther from that pale. By the time I got to college, i was already decades older than my peers. Although academically I did well, socially I was a failure. College is not for academics any more, it's primarily a social engine. I didn't succeed in that venue.
These days I've come to believe more and more in the wisdom of Nature.
"There are Ice-floes for Polar Bears, and dark wood for brown bear,and toy shops for teddy bears" Yeah?
J.O.M.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline justonemore

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 01:03:43 PM »
Thanks stack. Your response prompted me so here goes.
A) History (Aint fer sissies, no how!)
I began to smoke marijuana as a young adolescent, it was all the rage, 'tres' chic' what adololscent wouldn't be attracted to an idealogy that promised peace and love and eternal hipness?
B) it wasn't long before I saw the awful hypocrisy in the drug world, it was the time of the advent of wholesale cocaine, and I saw many of the peace and love hippies become psychotic criminals. Not what I signed up for. (it would be years before i learned that cocaine and it's derivatives not only amplify latent psychosis, they produce psychosis!) ( odd historical note; The Nazis developed methamphetamine in their quest for  a super soldier, and Hitler's doctors injected him 5 times daily with low-dose meth. No wonder he was so...energetic!)
C) At the time, I knew a pilot for Southern Air Transport.. Most everyone in Miami knows about them. He often would take business trips and bring me back bottles of Ron Matuselem, and boxes of Partagas.. yep.. once a Bottle of Ma'ma'Juana... the real ones. I also worked at Dodge Island, on the docks then, and got to know some customs inspection officers. They just loved hasseling the hippie kid, and I fought back, so we began conversation.
D)I began to see that there were powerful interests promoting the drug trade, and that they meant no-one well. Governments were involved, including our own. It was a smoke and mirrors world, your life and  mine meant nothing.( see Castro and Robert Vesco)
E) What happened then?  In the years since, I met and worked with a task force officer from here-abouts, and he informs me that the Marijuana of today is 60-70x more powerful than the dope we (he and I) smoked as kids. Not a benign animal, no, not benign at all.
I began to see that there were powerful and entrenched interests who promoted drug use and drug rehab. it's a Hobbe's choice. Social engineering through indiscriminate drug use, or through Behaviour Mod and thought contrrol. Viewed from a distance , to me it don't look a hell of a lot different than the idealogy that produced Hitler and Mao and Lenin, and all their like.
F) Sick of the whole mess, I quit. Spent my time in the woods, went to college, studied religion ( sounds dull but actually it were funnner than hell!)
G) ( If it wasn't for the alphabet song, I'd be lost) Then, after I'd quit, was I sent to the seed. A brand new education, a brand new world of hate. There I saw Kids who were fragile beaten down for what? To form a a worshipful cadre for barker.
H) Barker was in my opinion a dupe, a front, a sock-puppet for more powerful interests. Like to know who they are.
        In Summation ( yeah I know that's tedious, but what else do I say ? )
I am not against "drugs" per se'. i've seen people destroyed by drugs, but I've also seen one or two saved.
No Answers Here.
J.O.M.
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Offline justonemore

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 08:24:57 PM »
In retrospect:
That wasn't terribly clear. the time-line I mean. Apologies. A) I quit dope. boredom, don't ya know.. and disgust. B) I entered 'el Mundo'
En' este Mundo, el no 'que whele, Fuma! that was the code of my world B) Got tired of that, went to college, went hunting, went fishing along the St. Marks.
saw dolphin and whale, deer, hog, turkey, gopher. God, How i love this LAND.
quit again.
went into management
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Offline justonemore

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2011, 09:58:38 PM »
My Aologies for the previous disjointed post. I got called out mid-thought. Hate that, hate that. It's never life -and- death-jump- and- run unless it's A) 6am monday morning and I've had guests, or B) 6pm friday evening, and I've nefarious schemes planned, orC) the middle of a cold rainy night, and one or another moron has nought to do but Panic!
However, they pay me well.

Change of topic... Like to share  thoughts on captivity, confinement,indoctrination and aftermath.. this because I had a hell of an interesting conversation with a man recently.
His experience was military/para, mine was not. Compare notes? Ain't asking for confession, just insight.
J.O.M.
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Offline Susan Stone

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Re: the seed forum & my feelings
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 10:16:20 PM »
I heard being a fisher mans friend was way cooler then being an  :roflmao:  :rocker:  :rofl:  :whip: American Legions  friend.... just saying....
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Offline Ursus

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Re: "What the hell is a 'fisherman's friend'?"
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 01:14:10 AM »
Quote from: "??????????"
"i never gave the place a single thought for 30+ years."  yeah, right!

What the hell is a "fisherman's friend"?

Is that somebody who hangs out at the docks and is "friendly" to the fisherman?   ???  ???  ???  ???  ???  ???  ???  ???
Clearly, with all the trawling you've been doing tonight (close to two pages worth of thread topics?), you could probably use some:

    [/list]

    Fun facts you can try to impress others with (from their website):

      DID YOU KNOW...

      Fisherman's Friend is sold in over 100 countries worldwide

      Although first formulated in England during 1865, the first overseas shipment was to Belgium in 1974

      Over 6,000,000,000 Fisherman's Friend lozenges are eaten each year

      If laid end on end all of the Fisherman's Friend lozenges eaten in one year would stretch around the world 4 times
      [/list][/size]
      Fisherman's Friend (Wikipedia article)
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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      Offline I'll kick your arse

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      Re: the seed forum & my feelings
      « Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 07:18:18 PM »
      :flip:
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »