Post on Amazing Forums

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-30 09:04:00, Anonymous wrote:


That can explain why, or suggest, that the kids in these programs may be or may have been brainwashed...but, that does not explain why the parents who place their kids in these programs can claim to also have been brainwashed. I think the parents who place their kids in these programs are tyring to brainwash their kids.  I think that is exactly what they want the end result to be.



The parent who claim they too were brainwashed are just disatisfied consumers. "

To really get the full impact of how the parents get brainwashed, you almost have to go there and see for yourself. I sort of understood it years ago, at least as an abstract fact.

My dad went along with the program, violating a lot of his own personal code, because he believed that any kid who smoked pot, talked back to adults, was disobedient, etc., would either join the Mansons or die a skidrow junkie whore. That belief distorted his perceptions of everything as I turned into one of those terrifying, inscrutable teenager monsters.

He didn't come to these conclusions on his own. And he wasn't the only intelligent, principled man I ever saw fall for the scam.

Just look at the way these places go about advertising. Look at the "signs of _____" (fill in your favorite disorder) that they use in their marketing. Then call them up and tell them a story about a moody 13 year old and take a tour through their high pressure sales routine.

They point to past failures with different kinds of therapy as proof that the kid is seriously messed up when, in many cases, it's the constant harassment by various shrinks and altruists that are giving the kid so much grief. They get these parents convinced that, without the magic cure, their children are doomed to die.

Now, all these years later, I'm the mommy. And it is terrifying when your kids get too big for us to watch over them and keep them safe all the time but they're still too young to really think much about long term consequences and risk assessment.

My dad taught me a very simple truth from a very early age. And I think it helped save us both in the end. The world is a fucked up place full of demented people. This has always been true. There is no Utopia. The name, itself, means, litterally "place that doesn't exist". There is neither a reliable "cure" for a difficult adolescance nor is there really a warewolf-like disease called ODD. Opposition to abuse and defiance of ppl who demand obedience but fail to earn our respect is not a disorder!

If I didn't know what I do about this scam, I might just as easily have fallen for it as anybody.

Janis, Jimi, Jerry, Timothy... Do you HAVE to get this close to the edge to get a really good view?
-- Anonymous

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-30 09:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If you think about it, life is one big behavior modification program.  Thank God for sex, drugs and Rock 'n Roll.  



 :wstupid:

Legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement. Can you conceive of any other measure that would accomplish so much to promote law and order?  
--Economist Milton Friedman

[Deborah]

I don't recall seeing an actual contract posted here, but here's a couple of links to Parent Manual which lay out the program and policies. My guess is that the contract is a condensed version of the manual.

TB- http://www.adolescentspecialtyschools.c ... itybay.pdf
Casa- http://www.adolescentspecialtyschools.c ... l_casa.pdf

[Anonymous]

It only takes about 3 days to induce Stockholm Syndrome.  Get a parent to a seminar, and you can brainwash them pretty effectively---because while you're IN the seminar, you're physically isolated from other inputs.

Look at how many people fall for motivational speakers or timeshares or Amway.

[Anonymous]

It only takes about 3 days to induce Stockholm Syndrome. Get a parent to a seminar, and you can brainwash them pretty effectively---because while you're IN the seminar, you're physically isolated from other inputs.

That is B.S.   Brainwashing is being forced to buy into something you don't already beleive in.  Forced being the operative word here.  Parents who go to these seminars go there willingly and accept what they are being fed willingly.  You need to understand the difference between gullability and brainwashing.  Parents are not held captive.  They are there by choice and can live when ever they so chose.  

You parents who claim you were brainwashed are full of crap.

[Anonymous]

Deborah, I have seen one contract and one parent manuel, and they are not at all a like.  The contract states the staff are not trained, they state that they do use restraint and isolation as a form of discipline.  They tell the parents that the people doing the restraining are not qualified or trained in any manor.  They do state in the contract that the people who determine whether or not a child should be put in isolation are not trained in determining that that is necessary.  The parents know exactly what is going on and they agree to it.  They are trying to brainwash their kids.  They see it as being for their own good.  The programs are providing a service in which the parents are well aware of what methods are being used.  The parents approve of them.

[Antigen]

But they don't question the contracts. By the time a parent sees a contract they're already convinced that their kid will die unless they follow orders from staff without question. And the reenforceing fear mongering is definitely not limited to seminars and program publications.

This is no different, in my view, from parents who feed their young kids powerful and dangerous psyche drugs because they've been convinced by the school shrink that pretty much normal childish behavior is really a... subtle sign of some insidious disease that will ruin his life forever if not treated agressively!

Putting aside all viewpoints on pharmaceuticals for the moment, how would you expect a normal, healthy kid to respond to all of the adults in his life being convinced that he's mentally ill?

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson  

[Anonymous]

The parents are not brainwashed.  They make a conscious choice coice when they place their kids in a program.   Just because their ears were being tickled is not an excuse for them to now cry ignorance.  They are just as accountable for any wrong doing as the program is.

[Anonymous]

But they don't question the contracts.

There is no excuse for ignorance.  If they have not questioned the contracts then they have not done their job as a parent!  They are more accountable for wrong doing than any one else.

[Antibody?]

Ginger
Post This on http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeentherefrm7
I can't

I side with the parents on this one. I have gone through weekend workshops where I was completely brainwashed and found it to be pleasent in the end - not realizing that I had been used minipulated and bilked out of money.

Look, all cults, And I've direrctly experienced 4 - three voluntarily and 2 experimentally, can easily convince you that they are the answer to your problems - all of them.

They do. it by bombing parents with love, peer pressure and acceptance, a minipulative use of toxic shame and a covert use of love often with a sexual component. CEDU is a master of this. I went through their child and parent workshops. They are similar to Lifespring and Earhard, (Landmark Forum) Seminars Training. A couple of days and they own your mind. I've been there, I've seen it, and I've done it. It is evil.

Do not discount the experiences of others, the power of coersion. You see, you only see through your own eyes - not theirs. Take the parernts perspective. The kids should care about the parents too - parents - and even some of the  staff members are victims of this tyranny too.

I don't defend the removing of kids rights, isolation, or false ideas, and mean solutions, power play. Human beings, seeking an answer, are made (socialised) by systems - all are  brainwashed over a genetic blueprint. Then any ideology that isn't inclusive of other viewpoints and ideologies is bent toward brainwashing in an ideology. It is our right to choose different windows to look through, to see different views, different parts of the landscape, of reality, of social construction, of values, collective, individualistic or mixed.

If one viewpoint is in power, then it is our right to take some power back (rebel). Indeed, our country was founded by rebels who fought for freedon for all men (while owning slaves). The South rebeled and lost, but, nevertheless it was good to rebel. We rebelled in the 60 - 70s against a dumb war.

Now we have teens denied constitutional rights being shipped off and illegally imprisoned for lack of conformity to drug laws, or poor grades in a compulsory socialization mechanism called "school," by social and parental authority. When I was a kid in the 60's we rebelled. Black folks in the South Rebelled - I see no rebellion now.

Why not take some literature to these camps, inform the kids of their right to communicate with lawyers? Show then copies of teenliberty.org past abuses and their rights. This is a $$$$$ industry, the parents are just coerced to pay and cooperate. Hit the industry with the truth - that will bring liberty and end tyranny.

[Anonymous]

I side with the parents on this one. I have gone through weekend workshops where I was completely brainwashed and found it to be pleasent in the end - not realizing that I had been used minipulated and bilked out of money.

Ignorance is bliss.  Well then, if the parents were brainwashed, then society as a whole must be brainwashed and everytime someone in society commits a crime against another individual can just say "the devil made me do it."

The parents have not been brainwashed.  They have willingly bought into a set of beliefs.  That is not brainwashing.

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-01 13:03:00, Anonymous wrote:




Ignorance is bliss.  Well then, if the parents were brainwashed, then society as a whole must be brainwashed and everytime someone in society commits a crime against another individual can just say "the devil made me do it."

Exactly! Just like Rush Limbaugh recently seems to have been absolved of all responsibility for his felony drug transactions. Same argument. Good ol'e Rush didn't do anything wrong, it was the evil drugs that committed the crimes.

The parents have not been brainwashed.  They have willingly bought into a set of beliefs.  That is not brainwashing.  

"

Look, it really isn't about the kids at all. It's all about the parents. Kids can't write such big checks.

Always try to do things in chronological order; it's less confusing that way.
--Unknown

[Anonymous]

Take literature to the camps?  What are you smoking and can I have some? :smile:

Look, if you try to take literature to a TBS you're going to run into gates, then you're going to run into cops giving you a criminal trespass warning, and then if you stay, you're going to run into jail.

It's a nice idea, but not one of the potentially practical solutions out there.

Ginger is right about one thing, until there's a certain threshhold of public awareness reached, laws  won't help because the cops can turn a blind eye with impunity.

I don't agree that laws won't help *after* there's enough awareness to hold the cops accountable, but I do agree that for now, the vast majority of more or less normal adult voters need to be made aware of what's going on so the programs can't hide in the shadows anymore.

[Antigen]

I think you'll find that the constitutional laws we have in place, minus the (reams and volumes of) unconstitutional statutes will work quite well IF we, as a society, can come back around to our founding principles. I'm not at all sure that's going to happen, but I do hold out some hope.

People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.

--Benjamin Franklin