DAYTOP gave me control of my life again

[Anonymous]

I always think fondly of DAYTOP.  I remember getting my feelings hurt all the fucking time and feeling so fucking vulnerable in those encounter groups.  Somehow though, it worked.  It got through to me in a way that other programs, teachers, parents and friends couldn't.  Today I work for Phoenix House.  I'm not sure if DAYTOP has changed but I know that Phoenix is much more humanistic in its approach.  Its great to know that TCs are evolving and I one day hope that I can be that person for someone the way people like Alfonso Delaberrerra and Ed Hill were for me.

[Anonymous]

Isn't it possible that you got better *in spite of* dehumanizing "attack therapy"?

The reason Phoenix House is becoming more humane is because the research shows that attack therapy does nothing more than increase drop out and relapse.  And it does this by traumatizing many people-- which is why these boards are here.

Well, actually, it does do one more thing-- for those who make it through, it is very effective at convincing them that it was the main thing that mattered to their recovery, producing more advocates for something that actually doesn't help.

This happens because we tend to focus on the most vivid and memorable events--so they seem like the "cause" of recovery even when they aren't.

This is why peer-reviewed, controlled research is essential. Every single one of us suffers these biases and we can only know what works and what doesn't by looking at many people, not our just own experience and not just a bunch of anecdotes from those who have been there and who say they know what works as a result.

The entire field of addiction treatment has taken a tremendous detour by believing personal experience is more important than science.  Personal experience can be amazingly valuable in generating hypotheses about what works and in suggesting alternatives to myths about addiction.  But it doesn't prove anything about what causes what.

[Paul St. John]

On 2003-11-21 02:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I always think fondly of DAYTOP.  I remember getting my feelings hurt all the fucking time and feeling so fucking vulnerable in those encounter groups.  Somehow though, it worked.  It got through to me in a way that other programs, teachers, parents and friends couldn't.  Today I work for Phoenix House.  I'm not sure if DAYTOP has changed but I know that Phoenix is much more humanistic in its approach.  Its great to know that TCs are evolving and I one day hope that I can be that person for someone the way people like Alfonso Delaberrerra and Ed Hill were for me."

What years were you in Daytop?  Which one you go to?


Paul St. John

[Paul St. John]

On 2003-11-21 02:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
I remember getting my feelings hurt all the fucking time and feeling so fucking vulnerable in those encounter groups. Somehow though, it worked.
"

I didn t get feelings run on me much.. I was one of the poeple that staff referred to as "lying in the cut"


But, I'll tell ya, man.. I've seen people ripped to shreds, to the point where they were crying hysterically, and the people would just keep coming.  And once someone became the chosen victim for the day, everyone jumped on.. I use to hurt so much for those people.. I use to try and talk to em, in the group.. get to relax, but I always outsounded, to the pleasure of the counselors..


I odn t care what anyone, says, it was all about people asserting themselves and spewing their own ugliness at the expense of others.. Most of those feeling were manufactured in the group, and these people were getting off on destrying others.. I was there.. It was an exercise in viciousness.
and didn t help anybody.. the kids who were rat-packed beyond compare never held their heads as high in that place again.  They believed the bullshit that people yelled at them.  Looking back, I don t even know how i endured witnessing that.


Paul St. jOhn

[Anonymous]

House. I'm not sure if DAYTOP has changed but I know that Phoenix is much more humanistic in its approach. Its great to know that TCs are evolving

But aren't you really saying that you are glad to know that "TC's" are becoming LESS like "TC's"?

Yes, you are.

Paul

[SyN]

fuk daytop, breeding ground for child opression.  How do these places help anyone besides fukn em up.
SyN