FDA warning on SSRIs

[Antigen]

FDA Cautions on Antidepressants and Youth
Doctors Warned About Potentially Higher Suicide Risk for Those Under 18 on the Drugs
By Marc Kaufman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 28, 2003; Page A02

Concerned about studies that showed antidepressants may be leading some adolescents and children to suicidal activity, the Food and Drug Administration issued a public health advisory yesterday telling doctors to be especially careful in prescribing the drugs.
 
Full Text: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... Found=true

If your kid is on SSRI's, this might be of special interest to you. If your kid was prescribed SSRIs while held incommunicado in a TBS or lockdown facility, you should be pimp slapped! But first, you should get your kid to safety and learn all about safe withdrawal procedures.

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppression of both mind and body will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson

[Antigen]

Antidepressant drugs are prescribed in Utah more often than in any other state, at a rate nearly twice the national average, according to the Utah Psychiatric Association

The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled.
-- Plutarch

[Anonymous]

Holy Moroni!

[Anonymous]

Okay, this is fine *except* that some kids come from families with hereditary major mental illnesses and some kids get those illnesses while young and *need*  appropriate psychiatric medication to control those illnesses.

I agree that antidepressants shouldn't be passed out like candy, *but*.....

Yes, you develop some tolerance to SSRI's---not much.  But usually if you've had them prescribed to you, you're depressed to start with.  If you stop them suddenly, sure as hell you're going to get really depressed and likely suicidal---and that would be true of *anything* that would successfully help your problem.  No duh.  It has the same effect if you stop them suddenly as an adult.

*Because* your brain, if you need them, is out of whack to begin with, and *because* they are successfully rebalancing your brain chemistry to what everybody else has, if you stop them suddenly you *are* going to temporarily swing back *lower* than you were before you started taking them, before restabilizing at where you were before---stopping them makes you suicidal because the people prescribed them are depressed and they *work* to stop the depression---but only while you take them.

The problem is, if you have certain major mental illnesses and you *don't* take the medications, the illness is not merely an unpleasant symptom---it also causes brain damage that worsens the underlying mental illness.

I have bipolar II disorder (and a degree in psych), and I'm on SSRI's and my daughter, at seven is also on SSRI's.  Because she needs to be, just like I do.  Hereditary.  Just about everybody in my family has something.  But the medications work.

Taking the medication is likely to *prevent* further damage---because the bipolar disorders are (we now know) progressive---you don't treat the symptoms, the disorder gets worse---because the symptoms mean the imbalance is doing more and more actual brain damage.

So for people without very specific mental illnesses, SSRI's are hazardous.

For people with those specific mental illnesses, NOT taking the medications is *certain* to do more and more and more damage.  

Risk of side effects is the lesser of risks.

Okay, I know, the programs tell everyone "If you don't do this you'll be dea--ea---ea---ead!"---and it's a lie.

Well, for those of us with a major mental illness, "If you don't take the medication, you're going to be crazy, and it's going to have bad effects on your life, and it's going to get worse and worse, and you *may* die young of it."  And in our case, it's pure statistical truth.

So SSRI's are not EEEEEEeeeee-Viiiilllllll.  (I know, you didn't say they were).

I just don't want someone who *needs* them to go off them thinking they're going to die of them----and end up crazy instead, and yeah, for real maybe dead down the road.

They're not candy, they're not harmless as an aspirin, they're powerful drugs with potentially serious side effects that should *not* be taken unless you really need them----but if you really do need them, you sure as hell need to follow the instructions of your competent, licensed psychiatrist and stay on them.

[Anonymous]

Oh---and if you wonder about a kid on SSRI's at seven, *I* was suicidal starting at age 5.  And a lot of other people who have what I have got ill very young, too, it's just that the belief that mental illness "didn't happen that young" was so ingrained in the medical community, and among parents (*no* normal parent wants to believe their kid has a mental illness), it was there, it just wasn't being recognized.

My daughter, fortunately, is *not* as bad off as I was, but just letting her sit and suffer without treating the problem when we now know darned well what it is, is not an option.

She's a great kid, and we are really privileged to have her in our lives.  It's just that our family has this hereditary chemical thing that needs a little tweaking---on the right meds, we're fine.

I definitely don't think anybody should take these meds *except* under the direction of an MD who is a licensed specialist in the correct field (such as a psychiatrist) who has an actual doctor/patient relationship with the person taking the meds----and programs don't seem to be very good at reliably meeting that standard, and that's a hell of an understatement.----so if a program is putting your kid on SSRI's----CAVEAT EMPTOR---Big Time.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, I like this.  People sharing info and points of view without demonizing the author of the posts (or calling them vicious, vile names).

Personally, I have no doubt these drugs work but question their safety and efficacy when used on young minds as opposed to consenting adults.

Just my opinion, not being critical or judgmental.

 :smile:

[Antigen]

Oh, but this is so boring!

Jus kiddin'  :em:

I'm sure SSRIs are good medicine for some people. But, like any other medicinal substance, there are side effects. The trouble is that they are handing the stuff out like candy.

The really dumb part as relates to the industry is that a lot of these kids are getting sent off to TBSs for smoking cannabis, which is also a very effective antianxiety/antidepressant for some people and much safer than any of the pharmaceuticals. Then they put them on SSRIs instead based on diagnostic info acquired by laymen from the kids while they're under extreme duress.

We need cops.

We can't live without 'em.

But they need to start working for us....

That's no longer an option.

They've pushed it.

They've gone to far.

They've just gone to far.
http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/rb.htm' target='_new'>Tom Crosslin

[Anonymous]

Okay, I agree a hundred percent with you on this, Ginger.

People think because these SSRI's have so much fewer and less serious side effects than the previously available treatments for depression that they're as safe as aspirin and can just be taken for relatively minor problems.

And that's where you get problems with people whose harms from the drugs outweigh their benefits.

And, to the other guy, believe me, my daughter would much rather take an SSRI than suffer the excruciating stomach pain that was the somaticized symptom of, well, the family genetics turning up again.  When the choice is taking the meds and living an otherwise normal life or living as an invalid having to tiptoe around one's genetics, it's no contest.

[Antigen]

I can't say anything at all about you or your daughter. You're the mommy. Sounds like you've found very competent professional care and you've got things in hand. I'm a big advocate of individuals taking full charge of their own healthcare. You get advice and expertise from the pros, but in the end, you decide what works for you.

But, as you note, that's not what's going on here. Administering SSRIs and other psyche drugs is not the only and maybe not even the most dangerous kind of heroic intervention wrecklessly embraced by the Behavior Mod or Emotional Growth 'schools' industry (Adderall and Ritalin are also big hits)

If you look at all these different institutions, they're all variations on a theme; they all have their differences, but there are basic themes that run through the whole industry. Straight, for example, they used to be adimantly, radically, anti drug. The only drug approved for treating a cold was sudafed. Why sudafed? Who the hell knows. Maybe because it was supposed to be a non-stimulant. If a kid got dental or some other surgery, they were not allowed pain killers afterward.

But just think about what the parents buy into. Look over any of the lists of signs of _____;  take your pick, ODD, substance abuse... whatever you want to believe about your kid, they'll tell you that things like mood swings, desire for privacy, new friends, trying new styles in clothing or music and other affectations of adolescence are evidence of this dire malady.

Why do some parents buy this obvious fraud? I think I have a pretty good idea. I think it's because we've been told for a couple of generations now that any deviation from the way American culture is portrayed by Reader's Digest (for example) is a sign of mental illness. Parents buy into this because they carry this terrible secret that they, themselves, are undiagnosed lunatics by virtue of their own manifestation of 'the signs' when they were young.

To any Program parents who may stumble accross this thread, I'm not one of those who hate you or who can't understand why you've done what you've done to your kids. It's a mistake. And it's a serious one. It will effect not only you and your children directly, but your whole family. You're squashing the only connection your kids have to their real heritage. Your grandchildren will be lost souls unless your kids are able to pull it out of the lurch for you. Please examine the assumptions on which you've made this difficult decision. You are being taken for a ride.

May 12-13: Sowed Hemp at Muddy  hole by Swamp. August 7: Began to separate the Male from the Female at Do - rather too late.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/188301123X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>George Washington (Diary)

[Anonymous]

Mental illness is actually an inability to deal with horrific emotions that we didn't deal with in childhood.  Think about it.  Psychotherapy and guidance through dealing with and integrating those emotions into your psyche.  ANY psychotropic medication is going to screw up your brain really bad.  We are a world on the verge of mass chaos. How did we ever think our bodies and minds could be this defective

[Anonymous]

No, mental illness is a heck of a lot more complex than that.  Schizophrenia and autism, for example, have nothing to do with parenting or emotional coping (people with those conditions sure have problems with that, but their diseases don't develop because of them).

And think about it for a minute:  1/3 of us will get cancer if we live long enough, a huge proportion will get high blood pressure, diabetes is not rare and no one goes through life without at least one encounter with the flu or colds or broken limbs...

and there was no primordial golden age where we didn't get these illnesses.. before modern medicine, we just died too early for many of them.

Why is it at all weird that 20-30% of us should have some form of mental problem when the brain is the most complex object in the known universe?

Why do we all expect to have physical illnesses from time to time but see mental illnesses as something that should be rare, when the mind is way more complex than the rest of the body?

we're evolved creatures, we're not designed for perfect health-- mental or physical.

it's pretty impressive, in fact, how few of us are mentally ill.  but it's hardly surprising that some problems are as widespread as physical ones.

keep in mind, whenever you think about mental life, that we evolved not to be happy, but to successfully reproduce our genes.

and beware of anyone who says any psychological system can bring perfect mental health or physical health-- it's by definition going to be nonsense.

we're problematic, contingent, hacked-together from what was available creatures-- and amazing miracles that we function at all, given that.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-11-20 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Mental illness is actually an inability to deal with horrific emotions that we didn't deal with in childhood.  Think about it.  Psychotherapy and guidance through dealing with and integrating those emotions into your psyche.  ANY psychotropic medication is going to screw up your brain really bad.  We are a world on the verge of mass chaos. How did we ever think our bodies and minds could be this defective"

Wow.  Such ignorance is just....staggering.

And so *sweeping* a pronouncement.  I would *love* to hear your mechanism for explaining what particular childhood trauma causes general paresis.

Go ahead.  It should be entertaining.

[Deborah]

Any of this sound familiar?

http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssr ... nd_FDA.htm

June 19, 2003
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Baum, Hedlund, Aristei, Guilford & Schiavo
12100 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 950
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Contact: Robin McCall, Media Relations
Day: (800) 827-0087 or (310) 207-3233

Excerpts:
Attorney Karen Barth added: "I hope I am wrong in my skepticism about the FDA and that it does not white-wash the suicide risk as it has done in the past. But the FDA's recent actions cause me concern. The FDA this past year joined forces with Pfizer, the manufacturer of Zoloft, by submitting an amicus ('friend of the court') brief in one of our Zoloft suicide cases, stating that it would not allow Pfizer to place a suicide warning in the label for Zoloft even if Pfizer sought to include one because, to do so, according to FDA attorneys, would misbrand the drug."

Baum Hedlund later learned that the FDA's intervention in the case was the result of a telephone call between the FDA's newly appointed Chief Counsel, Daniel Troy, and Pfizer's national counsel. Alarmingly, Baum Hedlund also learned that Mr. Troy worked for Pfizer during the pendency of the case.

"The FDA is violating its own mandate to act in the interests of the American consuming public by taking sides with the pharmaceutical companies it is supposed to police," Barth stated.

"The manufacturers of the SSRIs, including GSK, have continuously and adamantly denied even the possibility of a causal connection between the SSRIs and suicide, and, instead, have blamed the victim and the 'disease.' This is notwithstanding clear evidence very early on in the clinical trials of these drugs that they can cause these problems. We have documents obtained through discovery in our litigation showing that there was an awareness of the problem as far back as the late 1970s, long before the first SSRI (Prozac) was approved for marketing in this country. In fact, the German equivalent to the FDA (the 'BGA') initially refused to license Prozac for distribution in that country due to the disproportionate number of suicides in the clinical trials. Germany eventually allowed the drug on the market, however, only with a stronger suicide warning. The reality is that all of the SSRIs, Paxil, Zoloft and Prozac, share the same side effect profile regarding suicide and the safety of these drugs needs to be re-examined, objectively."

According to a study released on June 1, 2003, in the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry: "SSRIs have become the most rapidly increasing psychotropic used to treat children and adolescents in the United States."

[Deborah]

I am writing a reply to the article republished in the Wednesday, August 27, 2003 edition of the [Austin American] Statesman. The title of the article was "Study finds Zoloft effective for children" and was taken from an article in the New York Times, according to the byline.

I have been a practicing pharmacist in the state of Texas since 1981. I reviewed the study this article was based on and found the following:

The researchers all had financial ties to Pfizer, the manufacturer of Zoloft and two of the researchers were employed by Pfizer and held stock options in the company. The conclusions reached by the researchers were based on a rating scale that was filled out by the researcher based on his or her assessment with input from the children or parents in the study. Lastly, the researchers themselves concluded that "the differences between treatment groups did not reach
statistical significance."

In summary, the study measurements and results could hardly be considered scientifically sound and unbiased. This study only proves further that the drug companies are very good at providing the nation's press with misleading data and getting free advertising for their products, regardless of the potential harm to the general public health and safety.

[Name withheld-did not seek permission]

[Anonymous]

What will this girl's brain be like in 5 years, when she is 12?  10 years when she is 22? Doesn't it bother you that there are no long term studies on the use of these drugs on children?  Your daughter is NOT a guinea pig!!!

 :eek: