A society within a society...

[Antigen]

Matt, remember the story you told me about Ken and the drunk guy at the police station? Same scam. "What, me? I didn't do anything!"

It's so hard to prove in legal terms, as it should be. Can you even imagine the mess we'd all be in if anyone could just lay the blame for their own actions on anybody without proof?

That's why this little problem of ours is best solved in the court of public opinion. I think some lawsuits and criminal charges will probably grow out of the effort at some point. But they can't possibly go far enough against the right targets. People have just got to begin to understand the scam so they'll see it coming. And that can only happen completely enough through art and dialog.

Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.
-- John Muir

[Anonymous]

Ginger

I understand what you are saying . And that story about kenny is not fiction. It  came straight out of his mouth and as a result made me realize at such a young age that elan would do anything to protect itself as well as to how dark and diabolical it is .

It just doesn't wash with me that these directors are not culpable and the lawyers that defend it in my opinion should also be disbarred.

I do understand that the more people that can see it for what it is (my opinion)a waste of parents hard earned money for what is offered by that place ,and in the long run there will be death to it thru attrition.

In my heart though I truly want those freaks to pay ,either by going to prison and losing all monies to the point that they need to wear barrels cause they can't afford clothes .

you see in a court of public opinion they have had their chance to say that they are sorry and is there anything that they can do to help us . they should be begging for our forgivness for their abusive actions .

did they do this ? no because they are ,in my opinion ,gutless child abusing cowards .Who have the gall to grin .

And they have had plenty of time have come clean and admit their guilt. Well the time is up and elan and its henchmen are going to reap what they sowed all those years ago. (which is pain)

It is time for them to face the music . I also want to state again that i stand behind every post that I have ever written on anyboard about elan . As sick as some of those post have been it is the truth .

One other thing it is sad that davidson and ricci are dead .I wish they were alive to see and hear what we survivours think about them and their abusive thing called elan .

respectfully

Matt

[Matt C. Hoffman]

the afore written post is mine .I must have been bumped off and did not realize that it also signed me off

dang computers

matt

[Anonymous]

I felt the same way when I saw there faces after so many years.My stomack was sick and I felt shaky they are sick twisted men.

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-19 12:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger



I understand what you are saying . And that story about kenny is not fiction. It  came straight out of his mouth and as a result made me realize at such a young age that elan would do anything to protect itself as well as to how dark and diabolical it is .

Oh, please don't get me wrong! I believe you. Not only because I've known you to be extremely consistent, thoughtful and reliable but because I've seen program ppl pull essentially the same shit w/ other people. Not quite so sick as talking someone into suicide by cop, mind you. That's beyond the pale even for the most sadistic among them. But the same scam all the same.

It just doesn't wash with me that these directors are not culpable and the lawyers that defend it in my opinion should also be disbarred.

Agreed

I do understand that the more people that can see it for what it is (my opinion)a waste of parents hard earned money for what is offered by that place ,and in the long run there will be death to it thru attrition.



In my heart though I truly want those freaks to pay ,either by going to prison and losing all monies to the point that they need to wear barrels cause they can't afford clothes .

I think those and other just deserts might be natural consequences of their own actions if we can just blow away the false legitimacy they hide behind. How many former Elan students have been able to shake it off and go on to successful careers in all kinds of professions? Is there a lawyer in the house? Indeed, there is. Let's put out the call. How about a film maker? A few journalists? Hell, even a stand up comic could do some good here. Ever hear Jello Biafra go off on the teen help industry?

you see in a court of public opinion they have had their chance to say that they are sorry and is there anything that they can do to help us . they should be begging for our forgivness for their abusive actions .



did they do this ? no because they are ,in my opinion ,gutless child abusing cowards .Who have the gall to grin .



And they have had plenty of time have come clean and admit their guilt. Well the time is up and elan and its henchmen are going to reap what they sowed all those years ago. (which is pain)



It is time for them to face the music . I also want to state again that i stand behind every post that I have ever written on anyboard about elan . As sick as some of those post have been it is the truth .



One other thing it is sad that davidson and ricci are dead .I wish they were alive to see and hear what we survivours think about them and their abusive thing called elan .



respectfully



Matt





"

Mad love for you, Matt, and the utmost respect. I wasn't talking to you about the exageration. I don't think I've ever seen you join in the prank posting at all. I was talking to those who do.

And, btw, I get it. It's just fun giving back just a little bit of what they dish out and knowing they can't do a damned thing about it. But now that there's another chance to get some serious action going, I think it's time to put away the fun and games and get serious. Just my .02

for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.    
--Alexander Hamilton

[new guy]

Im a film-maker,

[artman]

Ken paints a pretty good picture of himself and some people(that wouldnt know better) buy it.
Matts testimony I assume will be key for our cause as this continues to grow.Matt is from just before my time and has some pretty whacked out stories of which I bellieve are true based on what stories I have to tell and the things I had seen from my time.
I applaud your efforts since incarseration Matt,you have turned out to be a prett good guy I think
Art

[Anonymous]

artman when were u at elan?

[artman]

If you want a dialogue with me .... tell me who you are...
Anon posters have no balls.....

[SyN]

:lol:  i love this place.  Good to see ya around art!  How ya been?  maybe anonymous should call Dan.
SyN

[Anonymous]

dont think so dude.....real flimmakers spell it that way!

[SyN]

dont know maybe he got the point art, he was a serious diverter of questions. and if he wants any one to share about elan he needs to be straight with us.  Seems only right to me.
SyN

[Antigen]

Syn, why are you so paranoid about Dan? What has he or his book done that hurts anything you want to happen?

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James

[SyN]

Not paranoid anti pissed off.  Perhaps if he didnt evade so many questions while asking everyone for their personal stories i would feel differently about the guy, but i dont.  He fields all questions back to his book, he signs most posts with the title of his book.  Not once has he answered a single question i have asked , "refer to my book and you will know" is his favorite answer.  Fuk the book.  It doesnt touch elan, just joe ricci.
Which leads to my oppinion of dan as being a researcher, as seems to be the new thing around here lately.  I obviously have no problem shareing elan stories, but you have to give to get.  And Dan doesnt want to share.  So my oppinion of the man is very low.
If i was paranoid anti i would be an anon.

  He hasnt hurt me i wouldnt word it like that.  But as a person who never went to elan he should be more open about his agenda. not just state refer to my book, then ask all kinds of personal shit, or give out addresses to his duck reporters
I read the book his wife wrote is was a great perspective of joe ricci no doubt, but thats not the focus here is it.  Maybe you can start a joe ricci forum for him.  
He has been most helpfull by posting emails for certain key people that can look into elan so i know he wants to help, but he is still shady to me.  Cant help it anti its my nature n its not going to change.
I actually started out well with him at jackies site but he kept evading my questions, which can only lead me in one direction.  
You understand now Anti?
SyN

[Anonymous]

just like you said anti, on pauls post.  except at least mantis shares both ways.  But people who just want stories dont like whit like a month ago.  Never posted here just wanted info didnt wanna share.  But like i said before Dan has been helpfull with sending emails and with his rally type of posts,....its just my good sound thinking i too learned.

SyN






 One other thing...

Paul said it already, but I don't want there to be any misunderstanding. Of course you should be skeptical! Naturally, you don't trust strangers. I don't even view that as damage from the Program experience. It's just good, sound thinking learned from hard experience. It's not sane or smart to trust ppl you don't know anything about.

But do contact them IF you have a story you want to tell. Don't give them any info you don't want to give. Just contact them and GET the information you need to make a determination.

The truth will out!