Author Topic: I am an exsafe counselor  (Read 58891 times)

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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #240 on: January 20, 2004, 05:06:00 PM »
One more point then I gotta run for a while...

Most of the people on this forum were severely abused in one form or another in Straight/SAFE/Seed/Pathway etc.  If they tend to get aggressive at times, please try and understand what they've been through and how hard it is for us to believe that things were so drastically different to what we experienced before and after you were there.  Remember where SAFE came from...closed down one day as Straight, opened next day as SAFE with all the same staff.  The effect those programs have had on us is extreme and lasting.  If some of us haven't been able to completely leave that behind, I think it's understandable.  The best advice I can give you regarding what you call closed minded people is to simply not respond to them and do respond to the people you feel you can have a discussion with.  But, please don't condemn them for what they say here....we weren't allowed to say what we felt about those places for so long that it gets pent up and comes out as venom.

When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #241 on: January 20, 2004, 05:09:00 PM »
Good point!  :nworthy: I will
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #242 on: January 20, 2004, 05:12:00 PM »
Because Straight was so bad.  Actually, he's been in AA and sober for 10 years....a doc got him hooked on pain pills after a back injury (even though his first statement to the doc was "I'm an addict") and he made a stupid decision.  After he was already hooked the doc cut him off and he took a few pills he shouldn't have...now he's facing 12 years for this.   While he was out on bail this last time he dealt with his relapse (if that's what you want to call it) the way that AA taught him, so it's not like he's just trying to avoid dealing with his drug problem....STRAIGHT REALLY WAS THAT BAD!!!!!

Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813912652/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> James Madison

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #243 on: January 20, 2004, 05:24:00 PM »
he should have just gone to methadone clinic.
its effective for pain....24 hour opiate
and they dont cut you off...beats getting busted buying pills on the street
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #244 on: January 20, 2004, 06:20:00 PM »
nah, been there, done that.....you have no life on that.....going to the clinic every morning and the rest of the bullshit.  I was on methadone for 8 years for pain, yes it relieves the pain but the long term effects on the body are not worth it.  I'm paying for it now with my liver and I took it as prescribed.
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Offline glider

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« Reply #245 on: January 21, 2004, 04:36:00 AM »
Dear X-Safe-guy,
I for one, am extremely glad you found yourself here, that you are posting, and even putting up with insults and attacks.  I have read your posts and I personally feel I have much to gain from reading them and engaging in a meaningful dialogue. Make no mistake, I perceive you as an enemy and a nemesis and that is why I find this so intriguing and the last thing I would want to do is scare you away or make you feel unwelcome here.
In my personal experience, I harbor my strongest feelings about Straight towards the executive staff, specifically, Amy Cameron, Lori Means, and Ms. Reily who were executive staff while I was a captive at Straight Dallas in 1989. The things I saw in the 15 months I was at Straight (I graduated) would offend and disgust and reasonable human being. I saw people beaten and bloodied. I saw a girl get her leg broken. I?ve seen people semi-starved and kept awake and continuously yelled at for hours or held restrained for up to 8 hours. I myself, was strip searched by about 12 very mean and unfriendly looking guys, I was confronted once with people holding down my hands so I could not wipe the spit off of my face. My best friend in Straight put a shotgun to his head. I have a loving family and loving friends. I grew up in a privileged family and received an education and was able to make a good life for myself. I have much to be grateful for.  Having said that, I will tell you that in Straight, I have never seen so much hate, so much fear and so much pain, both for myself and others. I have known people that were happy pot smokers before straight and come out miserable and angry, whether they remained sober or not they were still miserable and angry. I lost my innocence and my naivety in Straight. I was exposed to cruelty and violence.  I was once a true believer and said that Straight saved my life, Straight denied me all my former love and support from my family and friends and would only reward thinking that matched theirs.  I had lost one of the most important things you could ever lose, I lost myself. I didn?t know who I was anymore, I couldn?t make a decision and was filled with self doubt as a graduate. Straight questioned my every thought and deed and I in turn question every thought and deed I had. Joy, love, and acceptance are born of freedom, self-acceptance, and experimentation. The sober and lifestyle that Straight taught me was a life of judgment, of anger and of hatred.
   I?ll take your word for it Mr. X-Safe.  I?ll give you the benefit of the doubt that people are not being beaten or unnecessarily restrained at SAFE and for that I?m very grateful and happy.  It seems to me that you have good intentions and honestly want to do the right thing and I respect that. However, I think you are terribly misguided.
I?ve heard this over and over again that now we don?t beat people and now we don?t stare people and so that makes everything OK. As Survivors of this treatment modality, we make the mistake of focusing on the blatant abuse, the abuse that everybody can understand as abuse like keeping somebody awake for 72 hours. Things like that didn?t happen to most of us, it never happened to me so what in the world are we complaining about?  It?s the entire treatment modality, the entire philosophy.  Take away the physical abuse but the psychological abuse is still there. SAFE breaks our most sacred and fundamental beliefs about freedom and self-determination. If I went to an AA meeting tomorrow and said ?Hey everybody, I love to drink night and day and have no desire to quit drinking? most people would think, go right ahead and once you change your mind, you know where to come. It?s in peoples best interest not to smoke cigarettes, it kills people. Alcohol and drugs can be the same way and yes its sad, its unhealthy and perhaps even immoral but nevertheless, we still accept that people make these decisions for themselves. I fundamentally believe that coerced treatment is wrong, at least forced treatment without any recourse available to that person. As a community and through a court of law, we decide if we can lock someone away or put them in treatment but at least that person can defend themselves. The mentally ill have this right, the worst criminals have this right and the criminally insane even have this right but children don?t?  How can we justify that?
Right now, Narconon http://www.narconon.org/ is one the largest Drug Rehab chains in the states and is based on Scientology.  I bet the Baptist church has gotten people sober and peoples lives have been improved as a result.  I don?t even need to mention AA. I understand that there are people who are glad they went to SAFE and kids and parents alike are glad they did it but I absolutely guarantee you, in fact I utterly promise you that for every person that is happy they went to SAFE, there are people who talk about it in terms of the most horrific thing that has ever happened to them. We should never force anybody to get sober via Scientology, or SAFE or to become born again because ?its in their best interest? even if indeed, it actually is in their best interest. That?s simply not for you or anyone else to decide.
   I am so puzzled and confused when I think about the executive staff at Dallas Straight.  How in the world these seemingly normal people, educated people, adults, could stand by and encourage what happened there. I do have a clue though and I consider it a philosophy that both cults and terrorists alike live by and that is that the ends justify the means. Whatever it takes to get someone sober is OK(SAFE, Straight, The Seed,).  Whatever it takes to save the Earth is OK (Earth Liberation Front), whatever it takes to stop abortion is OK (bomb clinics, kill doctors), whatever it takes to liberate Palestine is OK, you get the idea. It?s not worth debating whether the cause is admirable or not, its merely a question of the methods people are willing to use.
   SAFE has a sordid and horrific history. It is born of Straight, The Seed, and the Synanon Church in a direct lineage. It?s a story of a decades long struggle between child welfare services, courts, community activists, counselors, doctors and other concerned citizens, organizations like ACLU and Amnesty International, etc to close these places down and these places closing down only to reopen again by the true believers of this treatment modality.  I understand SAFE is less abuse that Straight but that?s not saying much. Children in these places are coerced, humiliated, and intimidated and I will struggle as long as I live to see places such as SAFE closed down. I care for and am concerned with the well being of these kids who are held against their will, who are scared, and who have committed no crimes.  
~John
Straight Survivor
Dallas and LA Straights, ?88-?90
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Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #246 on: January 21, 2004, 11:16:00 AM »
John, I must say that what you said was awesome.  I appreciate your candor and well-thoughtout posting.  I want to focus on one thing you wrote because others have mentioned it and I dont think I have ever addressed it.

You said, "If I went to an AA meeting tomorrow and said ?Hey everybody, I love to drink night and day and have no desire to quit drinking? most people would think, go right ahead and once you change your mind, you know where to come."

AA/NA are self-help organizations.  They are designed for those people that WANT help and are ABLE to use the organization to help themselves.  Treatment is not necessarily for people who want help.  They are for people who need help, whether they want it or not.  We have a choice.  We can let people (kids and adults) do whatever they want to themselves and do nothing to try and help them or do what is reasonable to try and help them.  The choice is yours.  Let us also not forget that people with drug problems do not live in a bubble.  How does the family suffer?  How does society suffer?  How do employers suffer?  People being in treatment that they need helps them and everyone around them.  

As I am sure you are aware of, kids even the ones without drug or alcohol problems, are not known for making the best decisions.  All of us can relate to making poor decisions as kids due to a lack of knowledge, being emotionally immature, or a lack of experience.  When you add drugs and alcohol to this combination of issues, can we really expect kids to decide whether they need treatment or not?  I would think not.  

As I have said before, the parents have ultimate say in what happens to their kids.  However, when a parent wants to have a child involuntarily committed to treatment, the child is GIVEN legal representation.  I have been cross-examined by more than one attorney that represented SAFE clients during these proceedings.  During my 2 1/2 years at SAFE, every child that was petitioned to be comitted, was committed.  Even with legal representation and an ability to get up in open court and speak their mind, they were all committed.  

I dont believe in doing whatever it takes and use that as a justification for unethical, illegal behavior.  I think that Christian organizations that bomb abortion clinics must be reading a differnt Bible than I do.  How they justify death and destruction in the name of God baffles me.  Counselors that abuse kids and justify it by saying it will help them in the long wrong are just full-of-shit control freaks, who have not clinical skills.

Many people are under the belief that freedom is an unconditional right in America.  To a certain degree it is-it says so in the Constitution.  But if a person breaks the law, endangers their life or others, their freedoms can be taken away from them so that a greater good is served.  Protecting a child from himself is one such greater good.  

I too give you the benefit of the doubt regarding the horrific things that happened to you.  I mentioned in earlier posts that I worked with group staff that were in Straight and they told me the same things that you are saying.  I look forward to your reply.  Am I really your enemy?

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2004-01-21 08:32 ]
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #247 on: January 21, 2004, 06:18:00 PM »
http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... miller.htm

Ex-SAFE Counselor:

Interesting reading.  The part regarding the symptoms is what I thought pertained to this discussion.  Keep in mind that SAFE came DIRECTLY from Straight.

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #248 on: January 21, 2004, 06:33:00 PM »
It was disturbing reading.  I dont doubt that any of that happened.  How Straight and SAFE are similar is the treatment model.  How the model is applied however is night and day.  Keeping a child in a treatment facility for drug abuse who has no drug problem is kidnapping or false imprisonment or whatever the legal term is for it.  That is why ALL of the kids at Safe HAD to receive a substance abuse diagnosis.  

To say that Straight and Safe are identical is simply not true.  I posted about this earlier.  It is like any tool.  When used by the wrong person it no longer is a tool, but a weapon.
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #249 on: January 21, 2004, 06:51:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-01-21 15:33:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

 That is why ALL of the kids at Safe HAD to receive a substance abuse diagnosis.  


Yes, but WHO gave the diagnosis??  SAFE staff???  Sorry, even if their credentialed, I don't believe for a second that they remained impartial.  It's too easy to confuse (intentionally and unintentionally) "symptoms" of drug abuse for many things, including a teen going through normal problems.  I've found in raising my own kids, who did get into trouble with drugs for a little while, that they learn much more from going through it themselves.  My oldest went through a HORRENDOUS time with Ecstasy, alcohol and prescriptions for about 2 years.  By helping to GUIDE her through that she learned for herself how dangerous it all was.  She's now in nursing school going for her either nurse-practitioners or nurse-anesthetists license.

Quote
To say that Straight and Safe are identical is simply not true.  I posted about this earlier.  It is like any tool.  When used by the wrong person it no longer is a tool, but a weapon.  "


I'm not saying they are identical, but there are WAY TOO MANY similarities for damage NOT to have been done in SAFE...even when you were there - and no, I'm not saying there was physical abuse when you were there, but there is TREMENDOUS, LASTING psychological damage done.

One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.
--Thomas Brackett Reed

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline exsafecounselor

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« Reply #250 on: January 21, 2004, 07:14:00 PM »
The whole ethics issue was brought up in an earlier post.  The diagnosis was done by a Psy.D, or licensed psychologist who was a contracted employee of SAFE.  To manufacture a diagnosis could risk her losing her license as well as civil action.  Do you have a specific reason to doubt the veracity psychologists or just the one that worked at SAFE?  To a certain degree all credentialed health care professionals who make a diagnosis could have their ethics questioned.  Does that mean every encologist gives every patient with a lump in their throat a diagnosis of cancer, so they can bilk the insurance company for all they can get?
Doesnt this all sound a little paranoid?  I know that people who were in Straight have a heard time looking at programs like Straight objectively based upon their past experiences.  Do you think that is where you base your opinion from?
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here is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world.

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #251 on: January 21, 2004, 07:55:00 PM »
did you learn a thing from straight at all cayhuesto if so learn to apply it to life now  and you would not be so negtive  :???:
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #252 on: January 21, 2004, 08:50:00 PM »
yeah, I learned to be like this.  :roll:
 you have no idea who I am or what kind of a person I am.  Most people consider me to be one of the most upbeat people they know.  When it comes to the Straight/SAFE etc. programs, yes I'm negative and you have them to thank for that.  Why don't you try a constructive debate....ex-safe and I seem to be able to handle it, guess you can't.  Besides, it's hard to respond when there are so many anons posting.  If you really would like to talk about this, create a name so I know which baghead I'm dealing with.

ex-safe:  I'm sure my perception is skewed somewhat, as all of ours are by our life experiences, yours included.  I question those who have the power to put kids into those programs when those very people WORK for those programs.  There is a HUGE difference between an oncology doc at a UCLA diagnosing a lump and these people.  The cancer patient has a choice in their treatment...none of these kids did.

Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself - that is my doctrine.

--Thomas Paine

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #253 on: January 21, 2004, 09:41:00 PM »
someone who knows you well chicken to face life as a whole from what i see go ahead and insult me  :eek:
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #254 on: January 21, 2004, 09:58:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-01-21 18:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"someone who knows you well chicken to face life as a whole from what i see go ahead and insult me  :eek:  "


 :???:
what?!?!  Please learn how to write in complete sentences so that we can understand you.

As far as I know, I didn't insult you.....unless you're a different anon...it gets confusing.

Republican n. A liberty despising, money worshiping, control freak. Democrat n. A liberty despising, social engineering, control freak.
-- Anonymous

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s