I am an exsafe counselor

[Carmel]

Yeah Ginger, but I was thinking maybe we should all be professional street fighters.....




 ::bangin::

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-05 15:10:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

They do come out every time, but after they come out and nothing happens the child learns. The client is never punished. This did not happen at all while I worked at SAFE.

There's another thing. In my case, the allegedly abused children didn't make the or coroborate the complaints. How is it that DCYF (or, back then, HRS) can walk away from a kid who's asking to be removed to their custody?

Could it possibly have anything to do with all the big wheels on the BOD and BOA of DFAF? (which, not coincidentally, also used to be called Straight, Inc.)

Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade.
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-05 16:44:00, Carmel wrote:

"Yeah Ginger, but I was thinking maybe we should all be professional street fighters.....



 ::bangin:: "

Nah, they get beat up a lot and don't get paid much. I once hired a lawyer, though. They make good money and work short hours. Plus the sort of watch eachother's backs, professional couresey being what it is. I think I'd like to do that instead. I imagine it would be a whole lot like my childhood dream of being a tourist when I grow up.

The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

[ClayL]

Isn't it funny that the guy never responded to the accusation that SAFE had a financial reason to find that all potential "clients" have a drug problem? I quote from my post on page 5, "I also think straight, SAFE and the like have a fiduciary predisposition to find drug problems in children."

Then he goes on to tout the DSMIV. You know, if they had actually used this, a good portion of us would not have been misdiagnosed. The problem with the DSMIV definition of addiction, is that the same behaviours are present in quite a few other disorders in the book. Without the aforementioned predisposition, the person making the diagnosis would most likely look somewhere else in the book to find the correct disorder for an adolescent or someone in their late teens. All the review is subject to being interpreted by the reviewer.

CL

[Anonymous]

Aquafortis-I did not realize I was name calling sorry.  SAFE gets paid based upon admissions-absolutely.  They are just like any other facility in that regard.  But I think what you are trying to say is that SAFE manufactures symptoms in order to justify certain diagnosis.  Again, when I worked there it did not happen.  I will admit that we did everything humanly possible to clinically justify an admission.  There were times when we discharge kids who did not meet the criteria for admission.  Again, I think that you have had a different experience at STRAIGHT then I did when I was working at SAFE.

Again I am not a lawyer, but to my knowledge HRS has no authority to remove a minor child simply because they asked to be removed. There has to be some basis (abuse, neglect, endangerment) for them to act.  

Regarding the whole cult thing, this is something I do not understand.  At the beginning of the program, a client basically lives in a fishbowl.  Based upon their actions, they slowly come out of the fishbowl and have more freedoms.  Eventually, they are able to leave the program and live their life.  It is my understanding that a cult never wants a person to leave.  I must admit that the SAFE culture did create a certain aptmosphere where people, even after they graduated wanted to hang around the building. As an exec staff member there, I found that I was almost constantly thinking about work or working.  I do believe that is somewhat of an occupational hazard, but when I worked at other facilites, I did not feel that as strongly.  Leaving SAFE was a good thing for me because of all the games and power-trips that Loretta played.

[exsafecounselor]

:wave:

[Anonymous]

it is hard for it to stand up unless, of course there is a safe counsler's erection inside.

[TinaMC]

Ex,
I think you said that you were there from 92-95, I just find that it is hard to believe that "SAFE" could have changed that much from Straight in that short of time. I think it would be more probable if you were talking about present time, then I could believe that in could have had a chance to transform into your version. The version, I think ,that most people could live with. You admit yourself that you were drawn into it more than anyother job that you have had, perhaps you are still wearing those "Rose colored glasses"?!
I do agree with you in the fact that children do not have quite the same rights as their parents, but they do have the right to live in a safe and violent free place. Without mind or physical abuse (which Straight did impose), have the liberty to use the facility when needed, not when they are told to go and in privacy. The right to talk to their parents and I'm not talking about 2 or 3 months down the line. I would go mad if I couldn't talk to my daughter everyday!! My daughter is almost 9yrs and I can say that she doesn't have the right to do as she pleases as some of the others seem to imply. I'm sure it isn't that way at their houses either, but I would never allow my daughter in a place like straight or anything that resembles it. I hope in nevers comes to having to do that but if it did you can be damm sure that I will do my homework and make sure her Rights, her Soul and her Body would never be compromised. Everyone has the right to sunshine, fresh air and exercise. None of which I saw much of for my 3 month stay(I split). Living in Florida at one time you can appreciate the heat and know that we were only allowed kool aid (dixie cup size) at lunch and dinner, never any water that I can remember. We had no airconditioning, only the warehouse doors being up about 2-3 feet from the ground to let alittle Hot air circulate. I believe that POSITIVE not negative reinforcement builds a positive person, none of which I ever saw at Straight. I would say most if not all of us had low self esteem, so how is it spitting, sreaming, belittling and sitting on people for hours suppost to help exactly? Please do tell, b/c that one has been puzzling me for 23 years.
Since we all know that Straight closed and Safe opened in 92, I find it hard to believe as I said before that much would have changed from what the space of a few months. I find it more believable that you had a blind eye to what was really going on. There were alot of people put in there for other reasons other than drug problems, I for one was put in there b/c I smoked pot and skipped school alot. In my day (1980) that was pretty normal, but my mother worked for a judge and well you can piece the rest together.
You can talk until you are blue but know this that you will never be able to change most of the peoples opinions on this web site, We unfortunately "lived the nightmare".
Tina

Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

[ This Message was edited by: TinaMC on 2003-11-10 04:01 ]

[sammiegirl]

Listen I am not as upset as you think. I am over what happened to me 20plus yrs ago. The thing is that I know for certain SAFE NEVER Changed.
While at a protest at SAFE I witnessed a Young man trying to escape and when I tried to assist this person I was personaly assulted not only by SAFELINGS but BY THE MALE PARENTS ALSO>>>
I was there to assist in a peaceful demonstration and was doing so until a child was attacked and thrown into the back of a car and held down by the same tactics as we used in STRAIGHT.
I will not blame you for falling into the docterin, but now you have been away from it enough to know it is wrong.
YES, sometimes children need in-hospital assistance.
NEVER does a child need treatment as was/is practiced in SAFE/STRAIGHT.
You said you worked w/ LORETTA. And that you did not agree with her. Obviously you wanted to change some things. So why not just admit that the kids were mistreated and help end this nightmare.

[sammiegirl]

On 2003-11-05 15:10:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

"They do come out every time, but after they come out and nothing happens the child learns.  The client is never punished.  This did not happen at all while I worked at SAFE.  



If you consider operant conditioning manipulation, then the kids were manipualted.  But don't argue with me, argue with the doctors that developed this concept decades ago.
"

OK
1. I saw a SAFELING picked up by his limbs and SHOVED into BRIAN SEEBERS car which was being driven by MRS SEEBER.
This young man approx 16-18 yrs was wearing a stripped tee shirt had short cropped red hair and wanted to leave the program. HE WAS ATTACKED BY TWO SAFELINGS NOT STAFF. THROWN AROUND AND FORCED INTO THE CAR. HE WAS RESTRAINED INSIDE THE CAR. THIS I KNOW B/C I STOOD INFRONT OF THE CAR TO BLOCK PASSAGE UNTIL THE COPS CAME AND I SAW THE RESTRAINT.
2.OPERANT CONDITIONING!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you pulling crap from your ass??
This was studied by Pavlov. Ring a bell the dog salivates. Then Skinner, If you continuly shock a mouse that tries to go for its food will the mouse stop trying to eat?
Then mao se tong. If you imprison people remove all dignity will they reform? Will they inform on their peers inorder to seek favor from their captors? will they become one of US?
Lets look at the history of Psychology.
It was once thought that if you dump a psychotic person numerous times into freezing water it will shock them into sanity. It was once thought that frontal labotomies were useful in dealing with all sorts of mental illnesses. Forced steralization and strange chasity deviced would cure deviants. At one time Malformed children were placed into the woods to die as they were thought to be evil. Priests and elders burnt people at the stake. Would you consider doing this today? Of course not! But you know labotamies were practiced until 1986! Forced chasity devices are used today! And children are being CONDITIONED OPERANTLY. Because one person does it, does NOT make it right, we all learn from errors. And we all evolve. You need to continue your education of the long term effects of coerced treatment and behavior modification. SEE THE WEB SIGHTS FROM VFW POWs. They never went through STRAIGHT SAFE ect. but still they were treated in the same manner as we. Yes not as harsh but damn close. Their symptoms are paralell[sp]. I will not stand by and enable you to continue your games and minipulations. Nothing you write will ever convince me that SAFE was a FREINDLIER PLACE BS.
PS you stated it from the start DECADS AGO AND PROVEN IT DOESN'T WORK SO WHY DEFEND IT.
We used to bleed people for illnesses until we found it was the bleeding that was killing most of the patients. Should we continue?

[exsafecounselor]

So many things to comment on-It is obvious that you and I have different opinions of abuse.  For example, motivating to me is not abuse.  Not even close.  To you, however, it is.  Knowing that you think that way, I can only imagine your level of disgust and disdain for any place like Straight.  

I have read on different sites about the incident with the protest and the child running toward you.  It was absolutely wrong for that kid to be stopped.  While I was at SAFE, once a child was out of the building, staff could do nothing.  

When you guys talk about being deprived of water, bathroom, etc. I can not state more emphatically that things like that did not occur from 92-95, when I worked there.  

You say you are not angry anymore.  Please go back and review what you have written.  Blood letting?  Drama is best kept to the stage.  What happened to you at Straight did not happen to any of the kids on my watch.

If it makes you feel any better, I can not imagine SAFE being open for much longer.

I to have a 9 year old daughter and am doing my best to keep her on the right track so that I am not faced with decisions your parents had to make.  

It has been over 8 years since I worked there and I still feel very proud of the work I did there.  I am not brainwashed.  I am not under some cult like influence.  I did disagree with Loretta on many things, but that did not mean abuse or negelct happened there, because it did not.  

I would urge you to call the police, HRS, or whoever else will listen and tell them what you think.  I have also read that many of you beleive that the local and state authorities are covering for SAFE.  Call the FBI, show them the WAMI video, fill out personal affadavits, and see what happens.  I am not sure, but I would guess that after a big investigation, nothing will happen. Those of you who are doing things like this, I applaud your efforts to try and make things better.  For those of you who are simply unhappy and complaining, may I suggest a local AA meeting.  

_________________
Tis hard for an empty bag to stand upright.
-Ben Franklin

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-11-10 07:31 ]

[Antigen]

Here's the nut of the issue from my POV. What would it take for you to decide that your little girl came out 'wrong' and needs to be reformatted like a fulty disk drive? Does your fidelity lie more with your child or with the drug warriors?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345371984/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_

[exsafecounselor]

My child comes first of course.

[Antibody?]

I hung around CEDU for 25 years. I was a Therapist at Boulder Creek and Rocky Mountain Academy for years I'm Sure SAFE is no different because They all are extentions of Amity, Mind Dynamics, Est, Lifespring, Scientology. They are all breeding rodents that beget more rodents.
Larry at Boulder Creek Academy - La Teresa just did "Landmark Forum" with him again. Larry was former WWASP - Montana Academy - Now CEDU staff are traveling to do "Landmark Forum" which is the new EST - all these orgs use brainwashing by pop psych done by untrained staff and doing so is dangerous. These former staff have no other line of work, so they go on defending brainwashing as "saving kids." In actuality, they are psychologically abusing and even killing kids. May they all be flushed into the sewers where they can join the other rodents eating mind and soul - but this time of each other.

[exsafecounselor]

Since I worked at SAFE, all the professional staff, who were all certified addictions professionals in the state of florida, no longer work in the mental health field any longer.  

Either you are mistaken or so focused on being right that you are not willing to listen.  Most of what you wrote is so far off base about how we apllied to model at SAFE, that I question where you got the info from.

I do agree that many people, more than most industries, in the mental health field have their own issues which are unresolved.  Loretta P. for example, was a master manipulator and control freak.  She was tough to work for.  

You guys throw the term brainwashing around quite a bit.  The point of SAFE was to take everything away from them, and as they grew and developed, to reintegrate them back into daily life.  Ultimately, they leave the building and come back when they want.  This is not brainwashing or cult-like.  We did enstill in them such crazy things like accountability, honestly, feeling expression, healthy family roles, healthy friendships, and we even went so far as to connect them with this other cult, Alcoholics Anonymous, so they would not have to keep coming back to the building.