Ridge Creek "School" - Serious Safety Issues/ORS Violation

[Ursus]

And you know this ... how? From what I've read, there were also other staff members who had felonies on their records. From the sound of it, Buccellato appears to have been quite aware of these priors and didn't/doesn't seem to have a problem with them. I s'pose a lot could depend on what the felony conviction was for, and when and how it was committed, eh?

I have not read about the other felonies myself and I have been reading this thread for years now.  I am only aware of the one here who speaks negative towards HLA and RCS.

Just so that we're crystal clear 'bout this... This thread was started just shy of four months ago by Troll Control.

How do you know that this former staff member lied? And how do you know that he was fired? This sounds like more opinion on your part, Whooter!

I have seen many inconsistencies in his stories and statements made.  He has also made statements as fact about RCS when he was fired years before that school was opened.  If you compare what RCSworkhorse describes (and he wasnt pleased with RCS) to what Troll Control describes it is not hard to see who is not credible.  RCSworkhorse is able to see the good and the bad within the same program and speak honestly about it even with a known bias.  We have never seen this from regulars here on fornits.  This gets back to another thread about honesty that we discussed earlier.

LOLOLLLL... As we all know, Hidden Lake Academy closed, and simply reopened as Ridge Creek School. They are basically the same place. They occupy the same location, reflect yet another variation of the same ownership, employ many of the same personnel, and avow the same or similar philosophy. They just go by a different name. There simply isn't the same shitload of wretched reviews and claims of abuse associated with RCS as there are of HLA when you google it. Yet.

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

As to your contentions re. who is the more believable or "honest" former staffperson, has it ever occurred to you that they might both be believable? Since when have folks' personal experiences ever been the exact same "truth" as everybody else's? Your attempts to attribute a moral value to one person's sole post on here, just because you find it more palatable, is... well... more opinion on your part, dontcha think? And yet, aren't you the one who always claims to be such a "moderate" 'cuz you "accept all information equally?"

Really? His stories of HLA actually carry quite a lot of credibility here, but that's just my opinion. It's YOUR stories that appear to lack credibility, Whooter. Mostly because so many of your "facts" seem to contradict one another, but also because you seem to have an overriding agenda of your own. Of course, that's just my opinion, but at least I call it for what it is!  

I understand this is your opinion, Ursus.  But we have to keep in mind that you are radically anti-program.  I on the other hand am a moderate and able to see both sides of the issues fairly.  I understand that there are programs which are abusive and those that are not.  Many on fornits cannot see this and therefore hold a heavily biased and uniformed opinion of the industry.  Do you see what I mean?  So of course they would view my information as not credible because it does not fit with their (your) agenda.  

If you speak to people randomly on fornits they will tell you that they dont know anyone who has benefited from a program and therefore could not possibly speak to the positive side of the industry, most have only been exposed to negative information and experiences.

I am not frustrated or get upset with negative reports or positive reports, I accept all information equally.  But the anti-program group like yourself cannot make that statement.  Many of you close the door on information you dont want to hear or try to discredit the information or the person posting it.  You have been here long enough to witness this, Ursus.

Ya can spin it any way you want, Whooter. I've been accused of worse, and even of being the complete opposite!  :rofl:   While I have neither the time nor the inclination to haggle with you over the details today, I would like to point out one glaringly obvious inconsistency in your above seranade...

Namely, that — despite your professed "moderate" views (<cough cough>), you STILL to this day disavow the possibility of thought reform as being potentially damaging in and of itself. That is, that "the process" itself can wreak havoc with the psyche, not just the incidents of egregious abuse which may or may not also occur.

This, to my mind, is NOT a moderate view. Not to mention completely lacking in common sense. But that's just my opinion.

You liken thought reform to potty training. Or being in a program as being analogous to having an ear infection and getting IT "treated." These are really inappropriate analogies for methodologies and processes that seek to destroy and rewrite key concepts of self identity in vulnerable individuals with little or no choice in the matter, and certainly less than full understanding of the manipulations they are being subjected to.

[Dysfunction Junction]

Nicely said, Ursus.  

We also have to keep in mind that there is strong liklihood that "RCSWorkhorse" is just Whooter in one of his guises.  When he posts under his various usernames, he always trips himself up by quoting himself over and over.  It's a dead giveaway.

As you can see, he carefully avoids the extremely damaging ORS report while simply continuously posting his own quote under his username "RCSWorkhorse."  Watch.  He'll keep at it and soon, magically, "RCSWorkhorse" will show up and say "I'm not this guy Whooter."  We've seen this scenario play out hundreds of times here on Fornits.

[Whooter]

Just so that we're crystal clear 'bout this... This thread was started just shy of four months ago by Troll Control.

I meant "Forum" not this thread, but you knew this.

LOLOLLLL... As we all know, Hidden Lake Academy closed, and simply reopened as Ridge Creek School. They are basically the same place.

You don’t know this, Ursus.  You have never been there nor do you know anyone who has been there.  We just heard from someone who has been there yet no one has responded.  Interesting?  If he had brought up abuses this thread would have gone on another 5 or 10 pages asking for more information...  but we hear crickets.. lol  Hmmm..  I wonder why?

As to your contentions re. who is the more believable or "honest" former staffperson, has it ever occurred to you that they might both be believable? Since when have folks' personal experiences ever been the exact same "truth" as everybody else's? Your attempts to attribute a moral value to one person's sole post on here, just because you find it more palatable, is... well... more opinion on your part, dontcha think? And yet, aren't you the one who always claims to be such a "moderate" 'cuz you "accept all information equally?"

I think I know more about DJ/Control Troll than anyone else does here on fornits when it comes to honesty.  I have seen him fabricate posts all day long to suit his present agenda.  Everyone else reading the posts don’t really know which one is true and which isn’t if the posts are about me.  So I know that his account is not believable from first hand experiences. added: (lol look at his previous post to this one which makes my point) So when I say I accept both side equally this is based on knowing  (or not knowing) the source equally.  
If it were a random staff person (like RCSWorkhorse) then I would hold his account just as believable as a survivor who came to fornits.  But if I found that RCSWorkhorse had a habit of lying throughout other parts of this forum then he would surly lose credibility.  But in your eyes if someone is anti-program then they remain credible to you no matter what they say.
I am not saying that all staff people have a felony background and lie, I am just saying that one of them does. Do you see the difference?

Ya can spin it any way you want, Whooter. I've been accused of worse, and even of being the complete opposite as well!

Believe me I know the feeling, I have been compared to Hitler!!  Among other people Lol.

While I have neither the time nor the inclination to haggle with you over the details today, I would like to point out one glaringly obvious inconsistency in your above seranade...

Namely, that — despite your professed "moderate" views (<cough cough>), you STILL to this day disavow the possibility of thought reform as being potentially damaging in and of itself. That is, that "the process" itself can wreak havoc with the psyche, not just the incidents of egregious abuse which may or may not also occur.

I have never said that.  I believe I stated that certain elements of thought reform could be used without being damaging.  Thought Reform could be very damaging, so can electric shock therapy and so can behavior modification or spanking or constant humiliation or eating too many French fries.  But they don’t all have to be.

This, to my mind, is NOT a moderate view. Not to mention completely lacking in common sense. But that's just my opinion.

This is exactly what a moderate view is Ursus.  Having the capability to see both side of an issue and listening to both.  I can see Electric shock therapy as being potentially helpful; and I can also see it as dangerous.  How many people on fornits are open minded to see this?  You know this answer.  I see behavior modification in the same way… etc.

You liken thought reform to potty training. Or being in a program as being analogous to having an ear infection and getting IT "treated." These are really inappropriate analogies for methodologies and processes that seek to destroy and rewrite key concepts of self identity, in vulnerable individuals with little or no choice in the matter, and certainly less than full understanding of the manipulations they are being subjected to.

But see they don’t Ursus.  No one in programs today have to endure what POW’s had to endure in Korea.  They are not subjected to torture and you know this as well as I do.  You find one common thread like (they are isolated from their family) and all of a sudden you feel they are using thought reform.  People here try to compare the inverted “T” structure and scare everyone....
They are schools, very tough schools, but they are not performing brainwashing by any stretch of the imagination.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

That's true, Ursus.  He sent out a letter to parents saying explicitly that RCS is the new HLA.  The letter is posted here on Fornits.  Somehow Whooter missed that.  Wierd, huh?

I'm sure RCSWorkh...errr...Whooter will be along shortly to explain how he missed that important fact after calling you a liar over it.

[Whooter]

Just so that we're crystal clear 'bout this... This thread was started just shy of four months ago by Troll Control.

I meant "Forum" not this thread, but you knew this.

LOLOLLLL... As we all know, Hidden Lake Academy closed, and simply reopened as Ridge Creek School. They are basically the same place.

You don’t know this, Ursus.  You have never been there nor do you know anyone who has been there.  We just heard from someone who has been there yet no one has responded.  Interesting?  If he had brought up abuses this thread would have gone on another 5 or 10 pages asking for more information...  but we hear crickets.. lol  Hmmm..  I wonder why?

As to your contentions re. who is the more believable or "honest" former staffperson, has it ever occurred to you that they might both be believable? Since when have folks' personal experiences ever been the exact same "truth" as everybody else's? Your attempts to attribute a moral value to one person's sole post on here, just because you find it more palatable, is... well... more opinion on your part, dontcha think? And yet, aren't you the one who always claims to be such a "moderate" 'cuz you "accept all information equally?"

I think I know more about DJ/Control Troll than anyone else does here on fornits when it comes to honesty.  I have seen him fabricate posts all day long to suit his present agenda.  Everyone else reading the posts don’t really know which one is true and which isn’t if the posts are about me.  So I know that his account is not believable from first hand experiences. added: (lol look at his previous post to this one which makes my point) So when I say I accept both side equally this is based on knowing  (or not knowing) the source equally.  
If it were a random staff person (like RCSWorkhorse) then I would hold his account just as believable as a survivor who came to fornits.  But if I found that RCSWorkhorse had a habit of lying throughout other parts of this forum then he would surly lose credibility.  But in your eyes if someone is anti-program then they remain credible to you no matter what they say.
I am not saying that all staff people have a felony background and lie, I am just saying that one of them does. Do you see the difference?

Ya can spin it any way you want, Whooter. I've been accused of worse, and even of being the complete opposite as well!

Believe me I know the feeling, I have been compared to Hitler!!  Among other people Lol.

While I have neither the time nor the inclination to haggle with you over the details today, I would like to point out one glaringly obvious inconsistency in your above seranade...

Namely, that — despite your professed "moderate" views (<cough cough>), you STILL to this day disavow the possibility of thought reform as being potentially damaging in and of itself. That is, that "the process" itself can wreak havoc with the psyche, not just the incidents of egregious abuse which may or may not also occur.

I have never said that.  I believe I stated that certain elements of thought reform could be used without being damaging.  Thought Reform could be very damaging, so can electric shock therapy and so can behavior modification or spanking or constant humiliation or eating too many French fries.  But they don’t all have to be.

This, to my mind, is NOT a moderate view. Not to mention completely lacking in common sense. But that's just my opinion.

This is exactly what a moderate view is Ursus.  Having the capability to see both side of an issue and listening to both.  I can see Electric shock therapy as being potentially helpful; and I can also see it as dangerous.  How many people on fornits are open minded to see this?  You know this answer.  I see behavior modification in the same way… etc.

You liken thought reform to potty training. Or being in a program as being analogous to having an ear infection and getting IT "treated." These are really inappropriate analogies for methodologies and processes that seek to destroy and rewrite key concepts of self identity, in vulnerable individuals with little or no choice in the matter, and certainly less than full understanding of the manipulations they are being subjected to.

But see they don’t Ursus.  No one in programs today have to endure what POW’s had to endure in Korea.  They are not subjected to torture and you know this as well as I do.  You find one common thread like (they are isolated from their family) and all of a sudden you feel they are using thought reform.  People here try to compare the inverted “T” structure and scare everyone....
They are schools, very tough schools, but they are not performing brainwashing by any stretch of the imagination.



...

Again you lose credibility Dysfunction Junction/Troll control,  I called you the liar not Ursus.  I told Ursus that he didnt know if RCS is the same as HLA.  Read the post again.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

You don’t know this, Ursus.

This means Ursus is lying.  You called him a liar.  But we all know about the letter from Bucci saying exactly what Ursus posted and it's posted here on Fornits.  Because Whooter is ignorant of this letter (or doesn't want to admit it exists because he gets egg on his face), he simply says Ursus is lying.

The fact is Ursus knows this, I know this and almost everyone else does, too, except our resident ignoramus.

[Whooter]

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

You don’t know this, Ursus.

This means Ursus is lying.  You called him a liar.  But we all know about the letter from Bucci saying exactly what Ursus posted and it's posted here on Fornits.  Because Whooter is ignorant of this letter (or doesn't want to admit it exists because he gets egg on his face), he simply says Ursus is lying.

The fact is Ursus knows this, I know this and almost everyone else does, too, except our resident ignoramus.

I haver heard you call  Len Buccellato a liar also, DJ. So who do we believe?

As far as the 2 schools being similar I am sure they do have similarities but we dont know what they are (the specifics) unless we speak to someone who was there.  We can all speculate but until we talk to someone we wont know which parts of the school are similar to HLA and which facets have changed.  All programs have similarities and some can be vastly different from another.

As far as being called an ignoramus I can understand your attack on me.  I needed to be honest and we both know that you have a tendency to lie when you are frustrated or losing an argument so that needed to be made clear to the readers.  I am not saying that you lie in every post, though, DJ/ Control Troll.



...

[Ursus]

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

You don’t know this, Ursus.

This means Ursus is lying.  You called him a liar.  But we all know about the letter from Bucci saying exactly what Ursus posted and it's posted here on Fornits.  Because Whooter is ignorant of this letter (or doesn't want to admit it exists because he gets egg on his face), he simply says Ursus is lying.

The fact is Ursus knows this, I know this and almost everyone else does, too, except our resident ignoramus.

I haver heard you call  Len Buccellato a liar also, DJ. So who do we believe?

As far as the 2 schools being similar I am sure they do have similarities but we dont know what they are (the specifics) unless we speak to someone who was there.  We can all speculate but until we talk to someone we wont know which parts of the school are similar to HLA and which facets have changed.  All programs have similarities and some can be vastly different from another.

Len Buccellato clearly stated, regarding the difference between the HLA vs. RCS:

"The only difference is that our average length of stay is now 12 months."[/list]

[Whooter]

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

You don’t know this, Ursus.

This means Ursus is lying.  You called him a liar.  But we all know about the letter from Bucci saying exactly what Ursus posted and it's posted here on Fornits.  Because Whooter is ignorant of this letter (or doesn't want to admit it exists because he gets egg on his face), he simply says Ursus is lying.

The fact is Ursus knows this, I know this and almost everyone else does, too, except our resident ignoramus.

I haver heard you call  Len Buccellato a liar also, DJ. So who do we believe?

As far as the 2 schools being similar I am sure they do have similarities but we dont know what they are (the specifics) unless we speak to someone who was there.  We can all speculate but until we talk to someone we wont know which parts of the school are similar to HLA and which facets have changed.  All programs have similarities and some can be vastly different from another.

Len Buccellato clearly stated, regarding the difference between the HLA vs. RCS:

"The only difference is that our average length of stay is now 12 months."[/list]

Are you serious?  You now consider a quote from Len as credible?  I watched for years in the HLA thread when Dysfunction Junction and people like yourself would not believe what the man said.  Why is he all of a sudden credible in your eyes now?  If we accept that argument then we need to consider everything he says as potentially credible also.



...

[Whooter]

He and his team also stated this:

Of the many difficult hurdles presented to those of us who work with families in crisis, perhaps the most daunting and hurtful are attacks from the very people that, in their time of need, sought our guidance and assistance. Often, the schools and programs that provide the strongest and highest-rated, proven support and solutions for these struggling families become the targets of the misplaced anger and unbridled aggression of those they were attempting to help. In most cases, these attacks come from families that fail to see the program to its fruition or refuse to follow the guidelines provided by the professionals in this field.

Unfortunately, the anger and frustration generated by their failure can lead some students and parents to manufacture half-truths and, in many cases, slanderous lies,(Robert Bruce, Dysfunction Junction etal*) for which the internet has become the platform. No school or therapeutic program in this country has escaped these vicious and, for the most part, anonymous attacks. Further, as long as the erroneous statement contains a heading like, "I was told by…" or, "A former staff member said…", there is no legal recourse available to the school or program under attack.

We at Ridge Creek urge the parents of prospective students to fully investigate any eventual placement by calling the school and/or program under consideration to request a list of families that have completed the curriculum and to contact these families for a clear and unbiased picture of the program and its effectiveness. If there are items of concern encountered on an internet site, address these with the school and its alumni. The future of a struggling child is too valuable to be trusted to a simple internet search that yields the negative attacks of those who refused the heed advice and follow suggested treatment and recovery paths.

Ridge Creek Admissions Team

* Added by me.

Both Robert Bruce and Dysfunction Junction self admittedly failed at HLA and are obviously still frustrated by this.  Bruce refused to be accountable for his actions and subsequently ran away and Dysfunction Junction was fired when they found out he lied on his application, he was previously arrested and convicted for selling drugs to kids.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

Even Len Buccellato freely admits that RCS = HLA, and has even gone so far as to write letters to current and prospective parents to reassure them that, in fact, this is the case.

You don’t know this, Ursus.

This means Ursus is lying.  You called him a liar.  But we all know about the letter from Bucci saying exactly what Ursus posted and it's posted here on Fornits.  Because Whooter is ignorant of this letter (or doesn't want to admit it exists because he gets egg on his face), he simply says Ursus is lying.

The fact is Ursus knows this, I know this and almost everyone else does, too, except our resident ignoramus.

I haver heard you call  Len Buccellato a liar also, DJ. So who do we believe?

As far as the 2 schools being similar I am sure they do have similarities but we dont know what they are (the specifics) unless we speak to someone who was there.  We can all speculate but until we talk to someone we wont know which parts of the school are similar to HLA and which facets have changed.  All programs have similarities and some can be vastly different from another.

Len Buccellato clearly stated, regarding the difference between the HLA vs. RCS:

"The only difference is that our average length of stay is now 12 months."[/list]

There you have it.  HLA=RCS according to the owner of the facility.

[Whooter]

There you have it.  HLA=RCS according to the owner of the facility.

Of the many difficult hurdles presented to those of us who work with families in crisis, perhaps the most daunting and hurtful are attacks from the very people that, in their time of need, sought our guidance and assistance. Often, the schools and programs that provide the strongest and highest-rated, proven support and solutions for these struggling families become the targets of the misplaced anger and unbridled aggression of those they were attempting to help. In most cases, these attacks come from families that fail to see the program to its fruition or refuse to follow the guidelines provided by the professionals in this field.

Unfortunately, the anger and frustration generated by their failure can lead some students and parents to manufacture half-truths and, in many cases, slanderous lies,(Robert Bruce, Dysfunction Junction etal*) for which the internet has become the platform. No school or therapeutic program in this country has escaped these vicious and, for the most part, anonymous attacks. Further, as long as the erroneous statement contains a heading like, "I was told by…" or, "A former staff member said…", there is no legal recourse available to the school or program under attack.

We at Ridge Creek urge the parents of prospective students to fully investigate any eventual placement by calling the school and/or program under consideration to request a list of families that have completed the curriculum and to contact these families for a clear and unbiased picture of the program and its effectiveness. If there are items of concern encountered on an internet site, address these with the school and its alumni. The future of a struggling child is too valuable to be trusted to a simple internet search that yields the negative attacks of those who refused the heed advice and follow suggested treatment and recovery paths.

Ridge Creek Admissions Team

* Added by me.

Both Robert Bruce and Dysfunction Junction self admittedly failed at HLA and are obviously still frustrated by this.  Bruce refused to be accountable for his actions and subsequently ran away and Dysfunction Junction was fired when they found out he lied on his application, he was previously arrested and convicted for selling drugs to kids.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

Resident #4 moved behind Resident
#1 and "began to repeatedly hit Resident #1 in the head". The report stated that Staff D placed
Resident #4 into a "double arm bar restraint" while Resident #1 was escorted by Staff members
B and C into the main room of the SAC. The report states that Staff C instructed Resident #1 to
leave and go to the dorm, but Resident #1 refused to comply. The report then states that
Resident #2 "jumped in front of" Resident #1 and stated that Resident #1 was not leaving.
Resident #2 then yelled to Resident #4, #5, and # 6 asking "do they have his/her back" and will
they participate in assaulting Resident #1. The report continues to describe various efforts
employed by Resident #2 to rally residents and instances in which the residents were
disobedient and disrespectful to staff members. Ultimately the report states that Staff B got
between Resident #1 and #2 and that Resident #2 "shoved Staff B and then slapped Resident
#1". The report states that Staff B then "escorted Resident #2 to the ground and that Staff C
grabbed his/her legs". The report states that while Staff B attempted "to get into the proper
seated double arm bar restraint, Resident #3 "ran up and repeatedly kicked Staff B in his/her face
causing his/her lips to split, nose to bleed, and bruising on the forehead".[/b]

Ursus, I'd have to say that RCS/HLA has actually gotten worse.  In the past resident on resident violence, sexual assault, rape, sodomy, etc were fairly common, but resident on staff violence was basically nonexistent (although staff on resident violence has been common there).

Now the report says that not only does RCS/HLA have the same type of resident on resident crimes, they also have had had two major incidents that we know of recently where residents battered staff, including an assault and battery of a staff who was hit in the head with a lamp and had her radio and car stolen and the residents who did the crime ultimately crashed into a gas tank while running from the cops.

It's really a prison now and not just a "mental ward" (they had a kid diagnosed as a pedophile who sexually assaulted his little brother and then some other boys at HLA/RCS) like it used to be.

[Whooter]

I reviwed the ORS report. I was a staff at RCS during part of this time frame. Though I did not have a good experience at RCS as an employee, some of the citations are rediculous!

There are many people here who have an agenda and will say anything they can to make the school look bad.  Most of the citations are typical of any boarding school.  Kids get into fights all the time outside of programs.  People who are familiar with the education system know this.  

Inspectors need to find things wrong and inconsistencies in order to justify their jobs and existence.  This is good thought because it keeps the schools on their toes and continuously improving.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

The report states that
"other students and Staff D pulled Resident #3 off of Staff B and that Staff C got up to help with
the restraint. The report then states that Resident #1 ran out of the front door of the SAC and that
Resident #4, #5, #6, and #8 followed after him/her. The report continues to state that Resident #2
attempted to follow and that ultimately Staff B "placed him/her in a standing double arm bar
restraint" when Resident #3 intervened and attempted to punch Staff B. The report states that
Staff B was able " to dodge the punch and that two other residents restrained Resident #3
"followed by Staff D". The report states that "outside of the dorm, Resident #1 was hit several
times in the face; his/her right eye was swollen the next day.
Interview conducted on 1/26/2010 at 5:05 pm., with Staff A revealed that staff to client ratio at the
time of the incident was 6 staff members to 40 students.

Didn't our resident TTI guy recently claim these facilities typically have staff to resident ratios of "7 to 1"?  This report shows the opposite: 7 inmates per staff.  It's really no wonder why the staff and inmates are constatntly assaulted at this private detention center.  Of course with those staffing levels supervising adjudicated inmates there's going to be real problems.  The reports indicate what a dangerous environment it is.