Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
deleted September 8, 2011
Dysfunction Junction:
I know what you're responding to, but it is not what you claimed earlier. Here, re-read your claims from before and either provide the evidence or admit you lied again. Changing the subject doesn't help readers evaluate your truthfulness.
I saw your response the first five times you posted it and I am still asking you to respond to what you claimed, which you are strictly avoiding because you know you told another big, fat whopper of a lie. Just prove your claim or admit you lied. Then we can move on to whatever else you want to discuss, but not until you prove your claims or admit you lied. We can wait. I'll remind you as often as needed to keep you on track.
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements. Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.
--- End quote ---
Since Whooter made this claim he was able to provide one single program with one single board certified counselor who appears not be be licensed in any way and did not show that there were any licensed providers with the kids in the field, as he originally claimed.
So we can all agree that if Whooter actually had any evidence to support his assertion above he would have posted that. It's clear he does not and that's why he has changed the subject and purposely derailed the thread with off-topic nonsense.
This claim by Whooter can officially be declared utterly false until such a time that Whooter can provide evidence that more than half of all wilderness programs employ more than one board certified counselor and that all people working in the field with the kids are licensed providers.
--- End quote ---
I'll take Whooter's last post as an admission that he has no evidence of his claims. We can wait for him to give us a rundown on the staffs of the rest of the wilderness programs operating in the US.
If Whooter wants us to believe that if one single program has one single certified counselor that it means "most wilderness programs have multiple board certified counselors" then we ought to be able to conlcude that if one wilderness program kills one kid that the majority of wilderness programs kill multiple kids. See the obvious fallacy in Whooter's intentionally misleading posts?
We'll wait for Whooter to show evidence of his claims, but until then we can all agree that he just made up those claims from thin air. when he stops trying to wiggle out of it and back pedal he will either have the evidence or will have been shown to be lying again, which would be no real surprise.
No offense, Whooter, but we can't take your word for it, based on your past lies and deceptions.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---I stated that I thought most of the wilderness programs had them.
--- End quote ---
Uh, no you didn't. You stated as a fact that MOST have more than one certified counselor and that most also have licensed staff with the kids. Now you're trying to revise your statement since you were nabbed fabricating yet again. It's called "back pedaling" or "walking it back,"Whooter. It's what people do when they're caught in a provable lie, like you were.
When in doubt, just go back to the original quote. Either prove it or admit you just made it up. It's not that big of a deal to admit you lied. It's not like anyone would be surprised or anything.
Good thing you're not in court now, like you were for your many admitted criminal offenses, because you'd be charged with perjury for sure!
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---I know what you're responding to, but it is not what you claimed earlier. Here, re-read your claims from before and either provide the evidence or admit you lied again. Changing the subject doesn't help readers evaluate your truthfulness.
I saw your response the first five times you posted it and I am still asking you to respond to what you claimed, which you are strictly avoiding because you know you told another big, fat whopper of a lie. Just prove your claim or admit you lied. Then we can move on to whatever else you want to discuss, but not until you prove your claims or admit you lied. We can wait. I'll remind you as often as needed to keep you on track.
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements. Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
From my experience I have seen that most wilderness programs have Board Certified Counselors on staff to support the program. I may be wrong here, DJ, I admit this. We cannot know for sure unless we look at all the programs. I reviewed several wilderness programs and the ones I looked at had certified counselors on staff.
If you interpreted my statement as saying each program had more than one board certified counselor this is not what I meant not my intent. I used Wilderness Programs as a plural and Board Certified Counselors as a plural meaning there are many counselors covering many programs. I hope that clears it up.
You had indicated that you never heard of one wilderness program having board certified counselors and I provided several for you to review.
...
Dysfunction Junction:
No, nobody "interpreted" anything. You stated it as a fact and got caught lying again. You made a statement and it was proven false. This is called "lying" and you are very familiar with the subject ; )
We have now come full circle and Whooter has admitted he told another whopper. I guess that's progress, but it would be nice if he would just stop lying and then we wouldn't have to go through this every time he makes a claim. He would cite some facts and be accurate if he cared about the truth. But what he really cares about is his financial ties to Aspen, so he lies to promote them. It's a shame, but we have to parse everything he writes and demand documentation based on his long history of fabricating.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---No, nobody "interpreted" anything. You stated it as a fact and got caught lying again. You made a statement and it was proven false. This is called "lying" and you are very familiar with the subject ; )
We have now come full circle and Whooter has admitted he told another whopper. I guess that's progress, but it would be nice if he would just stop lying and then we wouldn't have to go through this every time he makes a claim. He would cite some facts and be accurate if he cared about the truth. But what he really cares about is his financial ties to Aspen, so he lies to promote them. It's a shame, but we have to parse everything he writes and demand documentation based on his long history of fabricating.
--- End quote ---
I apologize for the confusion, DJ. I tried to explain my reasoning above and what I meant. If you interpret this as lying on my part then that is okay. Each person can interpret for themselves.
...
Whooter:
I think we have beaten the Board Certified question within wilderness programs to death. Lets take a look at Residential Programs and what they provide for trained professionals.
Here is a program Team Model:
* Clinical Director
* Students assigned a master's level counselor who heads a team
* Individual Counseling 1x/week
* Group Counseling 3x/week
* Team Groups, Themed Groups (Mood Management, Adoption, Loss, Eating Disorders, Relapse Prevention)
We should investigate the types of people they hire to support this model that they market to the parents.
...
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