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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2010, 12:50:12 PM »
I know what you're responding to, but it is not what you claimed earlier.  Here, re-read your claims from before and either provide the evidence or admit you lied again.  Changing the subject doesn't help readers evaluate your truthfulness.

I saw your response the first five times you posted it and I am still asking you to respond to what you claimed, which you are strictly avoiding because you know you told another big, fat whopper of a lie. Just prove your claim or admit you lied.  Then we can move on to whatever else you want to discuss, but not until you prove your claims or admit you lied.  We can wait.  I'll remind you as often as needed to keep you on track.

Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements.  Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.

Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

Since Whooter made this claim he was able to provide one single program with one single board certified counselor who appears not be be licensed in any way and did not show that there were any licensed providers with the kids in the field, as he originally claimed.

So we can all agree that if Whooter actually had any evidence to support his assertion above he would have posted that.  It's clear he does not and that's why he has changed the subject and purposely derailed the thread with off-topic nonsense.

This claim by Whooter can officially be declared utterly false until such a time that Whooter can provide evidence that more than half of all wilderness programs employ more than one board certified counselor and that all people working in the field with the kids are licensed providers.


I'll take Whooter's last post as an admission that he has no evidence of his claims.  We can wait for him to give us a rundown on the staffs of the rest of the wilderness programs operating in the US.

If Whooter wants us to believe that if one single program has one single certified counselor that it means "most wilderness programs have multiple board certified counselors" then we ought to be able to conlcude that if one wilderness program kills one kid that the majority of wilderness programs kill multiple kids.  See the obvious fallacy in Whooter's intentionally misleading posts?

We'll wait for Whooter to show evidence of his claims, but until then we can all agree that he just made up those claims from thin air.  when he stops trying to wiggle out of it and back pedal he will either have the evidence or will have been shown to be lying again, which would be no real surprise.

No offense, Whooter, but we can't take your word for it, based on your past lies and deceptions.

Quote from: "Whooter"
I stated that I thought most of the wilderness programs had them.

Uh, no you didn't.  You stated as a fact that MOST have more than one certified counselor and that most also have licensed staff with the kids.  Now you're trying to revise your statement since you were nabbed fabricating yet again.  It's called "back pedaling" or "walking it back,"Whooter.  It's what people do when they're caught in a provable lie, like you were.

When in doubt, just go back to the original quote.  Either prove it or admit you just made it up.  It's not that big of a deal to admit you lied.  It's not like anyone would be surprised or anything.

Good thing you're not in court now, like you were for your many admitted criminal offenses, because you'd be charged with perjury for sure!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2010, 01:02:25 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I know what you're responding to, but it is not what you claimed earlier.  Here, re-read your claims from before and either provide the evidence or admit you lied again.  Changing the subject doesn't help readers evaluate your truthfulness.

I saw your response the first five times you posted it and I am still asking you to respond to what you claimed, which you are strictly avoiding because you know you told another big, fat whopper of a lie. Just prove your claim or admit you lied.  Then we can move on to whatever else you want to discuss, but not until you prove your claims or admit you lied.  We can wait.  I'll remind you as often as needed to keep you on track.

Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements.  Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.

Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

From my experience I have seen that most wilderness programs have Board Certified Counselors on staff to support the program.  I may be wrong here, DJ, I admit this.  We cannot know for sure unless we look at all the programs.  I reviewed several wilderness programs and the ones I looked at had certified counselors on staff.
If you interpreted my statement as saying each program had more than one board certified counselor this is not what I meant not my intent.  I used Wilderness Programs as a plural and Board Certified Counselors as a plural meaning there are many counselors covering many programs.  I hope that clears it up.

You had indicated that you never heard of one wilderness program having board certified counselors and I provided several for you to review.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2010, 01:07:11 PM »
No, nobody "interpreted" anything.  You stated it as a fact and got caught lying again.  You made a statement and it was proven false.  This is called "lying" and you are very familiar with the subject ; )

We have now come full circle and Whooter has admitted he told another whopper.  I guess that's progress, but it would be nice if he would just stop lying and then we wouldn't have to go through this every time he makes a claim.  He would cite some facts and be accurate if he cared about the truth.  But what he really cares about is his financial ties to Aspen, so he lies to promote them.  It's a shame, but we have to parse everything he writes and demand documentation based on his long history of fabricating.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2010, 01:10:51 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
No, nobody "interpreted" anything.  You stated it as a fact and got caught lying again.  You made a statement and it was proven false.  This is called "lying" and you are very familiar with the subject ; )

We have now come full circle and Whooter has admitted he told another whopper.  I guess that's progress, but it would be nice if he would just stop lying and then we wouldn't have to go through this every time he makes a claim.  He would cite some facts and be accurate if he cared about the truth.  But what he really cares about is his financial ties to Aspen, so he lies to promote them.  It's a shame, but we have to parse everything he writes and demand documentation based on his long history of fabricating.

I apologize for the confusion, DJ.  I tried to explain my reasoning above and what I meant.  If you interpret this as lying on my part then that is okay.  Each person can interpret for themselves.  



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2010, 01:49:27 PM »
I think we have beaten the Board Certified question within wilderness programs to death.  Lets take a look at Residential Programs and what they provide for trained professionals.

Here is a program Team Model:

    * Clinical Director
    * Students assigned a master's level counselor who heads a team
    * Individual Counseling 1x/week
    * Group Counseling 3x/week
    * Team Groups, Themed Groups (Mood Management, Adoption, Loss, Eating Disorders, Relapse Prevention)


We should investigate the types of people they hire to support this model that they market to the parents.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2010, 02:43:04 PM »
Good.  So now we have gotten to the truth after so many post on so many pages.  Whooter now admits he just made up his claims and that no evidence bears them out.  It took a while, but now we can all see that Whooter's claims were false and he now admits they are false.

That wasn't so hard now, was it?  Honesty is the best policy, but we need to examine the claims of people tied financially to tht TTI very carefully.  They are not honest brokers, as we have demonstrated yet again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2010, 03:00:15 PM »
I added Counselors and Teachers to the list as shown below:

Here is a program Team Model:

    * Clinical Director
    * Students assigned a master's level counselor who heads a team
    * Individual Counseling 1x/week
    * Group Counseling 3x/week
    * Team Groups, Themed Groups (Mood Management, Adoption, Loss, Eating Disorders, Relapse Prevention)


Master's Level, CADAC Substance Abuse Counselor:

   * Administers the SASSI to all students
    * Substance Abuse Education Groups 1x/week
    * Individual Substance Abuse Counseling
    * AA & NA meetings both on and off campus
    * Relapse Prevention Groups


Educational Support:

    * 11 teachers
    * Organizational Coach



We should investigate the types of people they hire to support this model that they market to the parents.



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Offline heretik

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2010, 03:15:11 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"

I was lead to believe that the counselors were more on a consulting bases. Yes they did have certain students to deal with but they also worked elsewhere other then Swift. They had there own practice or counseling sessions aside from Swift. That they only gave Swift so many hours a week.

When my daughter was there they had licensed therapists who were not on staff with the school come in to handle the individual therapy, they had their own private practice and not all the kids had individual therapy at that time (only if the parents opted for it) and the therapists would invoice the parents and were paid directly by the parents not through the school.  These therapists would communicate with the childs therapist at home in an effort to work together and communicate progress.  These therapists were never listed on ASR's web site , as I remember, because they were not employees of Aspen.



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Swift brochure does not say or infer that the counselors work there full-time or not. This is something only folks with "a need to know" know. The brochure that was produced and looked at by you prior to sending your daughter there probably said the same thing. Only after you got to know the situation did you understand the working arrangement with the counselor your daughter was assigned to.
What makes you so sure they changed.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2010, 03:26:32 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"

I was lead to believe that the counselors were more on a consulting bases. Yes they did have certain students to deal with but they also worked elsewhere other then Swift. They had there own practice or counseling sessions aside from Swift. That they only gave Swift so many hours a week.

When my daughter was there they had licensed therapists who were not on staff with the school come in to handle the individual therapy, they had their own private practice and not all the kids had individual therapy at that time (only if the parents opted for it) and the therapists would invoice the parents and were paid directly by the parents not through the school.  These therapists would communicate with the childs therapist at home in an effort to work together and communicate progress.  These therapists were never listed on ASR's web site , as I remember, because they were not employees of Aspen.



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Swift brochure does not say or infer that the counselors work there full-time or not. This is something only folks with "a need to know" know. The brochure that was produced and looked at by you prior to sending your daughter there probably said the same thing. Only after you got to know the situation did you understand the working arrangement with the counselor your daughter was assigned to.
What makes you so sure they changed.

I wouldn't expect them to document how many hours each person works.  I sat with admissions and went over all the interactions my daughter would have and with whom.  I was introduced to the staff, although I did not meet my daughters individual therapist until my first visit but I did speak to her over the phone prior to that to receive updates.  My daughter approved the communication on a week by week basis and she also communicated with my daughters therapist at home who she was seeing prior to her placement.



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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2010, 04:27:11 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"
What makes you so sure they changed.
I am not sure exactly what has changed since that time.  



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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2010, 10:25:00 AM »
As a recap, I think we have established that wilderness programs hire board Certified Counselors.  

Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.

Link 1
Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling,

I looked at a few more wilderness Programs and they had board certified Counselors also.  Lets take a look:


Link 2  Stone Mountain

Mark is a Nationally Certified Counselor through the National Board of Certified Counselors and is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of North Carolina.

Link 3
and was accredited by the National Board of Certified Counselors (NBCC)


Link 4

Tatum Miller, LCPC

She is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor (LCPC) and Board Certified



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2010, 11:11:51 AM »
Quote from: "seamus"
UMMMM.....Lemme see 1.cause they work cheap
                                    2. cause they'll buy in,drink the cool-aid ,and not know any better.
                                    3. they cant be held accountable to any certifications or licences.

                                                                             Does that about cover it? :nods:

seamus wins the prize!
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2010, 11:27:02 AM »
The prize, lol


An example of some of the qualifications for program staff:

Clinical Team Link

Amato, Jordana Clinical Counselor  ……..Master, LICSW
 Blackburn, Kathy Clinical Counselor….. MSW in Clinical Social Work from Smith College
 Curtis, Richard Clinical Counselor ………….. MA in Counseling Psychology
Donahue, Elizabeth Clinical Counselor…………….  Masters of Social Work from Smith College
 Everson, Audrey Clinical Counselor ………….  two master’s degrees in Counseling/Psyhology, M.A., M.Ed.
Nelson, Alix Clinical Counselor …………..  Masters Degree in Counseling



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2010, 12:26:04 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "seamus"
UMMMM.....Lemme see 1.cause they work cheap
                                    2. cause they'll buy in,drink the cool-aid ,and not know any better.
                                    3. they cant be held accountable to any certifications or licences.

                                                                             Does that about cover it? :nods:

seamus wins the prize!

 :deal:   I'm going to say seamus has it right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2010, 12:42:26 PM »
These are the teachers they have on staff.  I will pull together their qualifications for us to look at.

Ballou-Baldwin, Martha    Administrative Assistant
Gutermuth, Brittany    Teacher
Jasinski, Chris    Teacher
LaForest, Jennifer    Teacher
Lyons, Judith    Learning Specialist
Misener, Melinda    Teacher
Tripler, Charles    Teacher
Wallender, John    Teacher
Wilcox, Dennis    Academic Registrar/Scheduler
Williams, Greg    Teacher
Winston, Jeff    Teacher



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