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Offline heretik

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2010, 05:39:23 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"
Whooter, stop trying to misdirect what you and I already know (maybe you don't know). Whooter are you trying to say all these clinical counselors work full time at Swift???? Mon-Fri/ 52 weeks out of the year except vacation time.
Amato, Jordana    Clinical Counselor
Blackburn, Kathy    Clinical Counselor
Curtis, Richard    Clinical Counselor
Donahue, Elizabeth    Clinical Counselor
Everson, Audrey    Clinical Counselor
Nelson, Alix    Clinical Counselor

Yes it is a snap shot of the employees whenever the last time the web site was updated.  Maybe Kathy Blackburn left and was replaced with a new person for example, but this is a list of their staff.  What did you think it was?



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So according to you all (6) clinical counselors work full time at Swift.

Yes, why not call them and ask if there website reflects their present employees.  It is probably very close.  If business drops off then they may reduce to 5 clinical counselors and then pick up another counselor when business picks up again.



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I already have done this, as a matter of fact I already knew the answer before this conversation even started. I just wanted to know what you knew. Whooter as I have always said you are a fool waltzing around here, playing games.
The children, Whooter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2010, 05:51:54 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"

I already have done this, as a matter of fact I already knew the answer before this conversation even started. I just wanted to know what you knew. Whooter as I have always said you are a fool waltzing around here, playing games.
The children, Whooter.

Sure, Heretik, I think we all believe that ASR told you that their web site was wrong.  You made a fool of yourself.  I showed you both websites, if you want to believe they are fake then that is your prerogative, but until you bring some proof to the table we need to stick with the verifiable facts. I am sorry you got egg on your face, Heretik, but you asked for me to show you a staff list and I provided two.  One for residential treatment and one for wilderness.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline heretik

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2010, 07:07:41 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"

I already have done this, as a matter of fact I already knew the answer before this conversation even started. I just wanted to know what you knew. Whooter as I have always said you are a fool waltzing around here, playing games.
The children, Whooter.

Sure, Heretik, I think we all believe that ASR told you that their web site was wrong.  You made a fool of yourself.  I showed you both websites, if you want to believe they are fake then that is your prerogative, but until you bring some proof to the table we need to stick with the verifiable facts. I am sorry you got egg on your face, Heretik, but you asked for me to show you a staff list and I provided two.  One for residential treatment and one for wilderness.



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You still have not answered my question, my only question. Do the 6 counselors work there full time. Zero in on the question, big guy. It seems you do not know. Which is OK. Which would then lead to believe that anybody can post a brochure. But people that know the industry post the details.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2010, 07:19:51 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"

I already have done this, as a matter of fact I already knew the answer before this conversation even started. I just wanted to know what you knew. Whooter as I have always said you are a fool waltzing around here, playing games.
The children, Whooter.

Sure, Heretik, I think we all believe that ASR told you that their web site was wrong.  You made a fool of yourself.  I showed you both websites, if you want to believe they are fake then that is your prerogative, but until you bring some proof to the table we need to stick with the verifiable facts. I am sorry you got egg on your face, Heretik, but you asked for me to show you a staff list and I provided two.  One for residential treatment and one for wilderness.



...

You still have not answered my question, my only question. Do the 6 counselors work there full time. Zero in on the question, big guy. It seems you do not know. Which is OK. Which would then lead to believe that anybody can post a brochure. But people that know the industry post the details.

I did answer you a few posts back.  My answer was "Yes" they do.  If they have more kids come in then maybe the number of counselors will jump to 7 if they need the added support.  I agree with you that anybody can post a brochure, but this one was posted by ASR and it reflects their staff at the time of the web site update.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline heretik

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2010, 09:18:46 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "heretik"

I already have done this, as a matter of fact I already knew the answer before this conversation even started. I just wanted to know what you knew. Whooter as I have always said you are a fool waltzing around here, playing games.
The children, Whooter.

Sure, Heretik, I think we all believe that ASR told you that their web site was wrong.  You made a fool of yourself.  I showed you both websites, if you want to believe they are fake then that is your prerogative, but until you bring some proof to the table we need to stick with the verifiable facts. I am sorry you got egg on your face, Heretik, but you asked for me to show you a staff list and I provided two.  One for residential treatment and one for wilderness.



...

You still have not answered my question, my only question. Do the 6 counselors work there full time. Zero in on the question, big guy. It seems you do not know. Which is OK. Which would then lead to believe that anybody can post a brochure. But people that know the industry post the details.

I did answer you a few posts back.  My answer was "Yes" they do.  If they have more kids come in then maybe the number of counselors will jump to 7 if they need the added support.  I agree with you that anybody can post a brochure, but this one was posted by ASR and it reflects their staff at the time of the web site update.



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I was lead to believe that the counselors were more on a consulting bases. Yes they did have certain students to deal with but they also worked elsewhere other then Swift. They had there own practice or counseling sessions aside from Swift. That they only gave Swift so many hours a week.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2010, 10:01:11 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"

I was lead to believe that the counselors were more on a consulting bases. Yes they did have certain students to deal with but they also worked elsewhere other then Swift. They had there own practice or counseling sessions aside from Swift. That they only gave Swift so many hours a week.

When my daughter was there they had licensed therapists who were not on staff with the school come in to handle the individual therapy, they had their own private practice and not all the kids had individual therapy at that time (only if the parents opted for it) and the therapists would invoice the parents and were paid directly by the parents not through the school.  These therapists would communicate with the childs therapist at home in an effort to work together and communicate progress.  These therapists were never listed on ASR's web site , as I remember, because they were not employees of Aspen.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2010, 08:45:58 AM »
When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements.  Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.

Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

Since Whooter made this claim he was able to provide one single program with one single board certified counselor who appears not be be licensed in any way and did not show that there were any licensed providers with the kids in the field, as he originally claimed.

So we can all agree that if Whooter actually had any evidence to support his assertion above he would have posted that.  It's clear he does not and that's why he has changed the subject and purposely derailed the thread with off-topic nonsense.

This claim by Whooter can officially be declared utterly false until such a time that Whooter can provide evidence that more than half of all wilderness programs employ more than one board certified counselor and that all people working in the field with the kids are licensed providers.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2010, 09:30:48 AM »
Lets take another look:

Residential Program Example:

click  “Faculty & staff Bio’s”
Link
Even the guy who drives the van is listed.

Wilderness Program Example:

Link
Click at the bottom for "complete staff list"
Even the housekeeper is listed!

Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.

Read it and weep, DJ:

Link
Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling,


Well what do ya know...."Board Certified Counselors"



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2010, 10:22:15 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements.  Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.

Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

Since Whooter made this claim he was able to provide one single program with one single board certified counselor who appears not be be licensed in any way and did not show that there were any licensed providers with the kids in the field, as he originally claimed.

So we can all agree that if Whooter actually had any evidence to support his assertion above he would have posted that.  It's clear he does not and that's why he has changed the subject and purposely derailed the thread with off-topic nonsense.

This claim by Whooter can officially be declared utterly false until such a time that Whooter can provide evidence that more than half of all wilderness programs employ more than one board certified counselor and that all people working in the field with the kids are licensed providers.


I'll take Whooter's last post as an admission that he has no evidence of his claims.  We can wait for him to give us a rundown on the staffs of the rest of the wilderness programs operating in the US.

If Whooter wants us to believe that if one single program has one single certified counselor that it means "most wilderness programs have multiple board certified counselors" then we ought to be able to conlcude that if one wilderness program kills one kid that the majority of wilderness programs kill multiple kids.  See the obvious fallacy in Whooter's intentionally misleading posts?

We'll wait for Whooter to show evidence of his claims, but until then we can all agree that he just made up those claims from thin air.  when he stops trying to wiggle out of it and back pedal he will either have the evidence or will have been shown to be lying again, which would be no real surprise.

No offense, Whooter, but we can't take your word for it, based on your past lies and deceptions.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2010, 10:44:38 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"

No offense, Whooter, but we can't take your word for it.....

No offense taken, DJ, I understand your dilemma.  I believe we should all provide links to back up what we state and that we should not take everyones' post at face value.  I think we can both agree on this point.  You had indicated in a previous post that you never saw a program which had a board certified counselor.  The first one that I pulled up had a board certified Counselor on staff.  Which I presented here:

Link
Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling......



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2010, 11:25:05 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.

Link 1
Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling,

I looked at a few more wilderness Programs and they had board certified Counselors also.  Lets take a look:


Link 2  Stone Mountain

Mark is a Nationally Certified Counselor through the National Board of Certified Counselors and is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of North Carolina.

Link 3
and was accredited by the National Board of Certified Counselors (NBCC)


Link 4

Tatum Miller, LCPC

She is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor (LCPC) and Board Certified



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2010, 12:17:30 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
When in doubt I like to go back to the original statements.  Here's Whooter's original statement that says the MAJORITY of wilderness programs have MULTIPLE BOARD CERTIFIED COUNSELORS and that the people who work directly with the kids are LICENSED.

Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

Since Whooter made this claim he was able to provide one single program with one single board certified counselor who appears not be be licensed in any way and did not show that there were any licensed providers with the kids in the field, as he originally claimed.

So we can all agree that if Whooter actually had any evidence to support his assertion above he would have posted that.  It's clear he does not and that's why he has changed the subject and purposely derailed the thread with off-topic nonsense.

This claim by Whooter can officially be declared utterly false until such a time that Whooter can provide evidence that more than half of all wilderness programs employ more than one board certified counselor and that all people working in the field with the kids are licensed providers.


I'll take Whooter's last post as an admission that he has no evidence of his claims.  We can wait for him to give us a rundown on the staffs of the rest of the wilderness programs operating in the US.

If Whooter wants us to believe that if one single program has one single certified counselor that it means "most wilderness programs have multiple board certified counselors" then we ought to be able to conlcude that if one wilderness program kills one kid that the majority of wilderness programs kill multiple kids.  See the obvious fallacy in Whooter's intentionally misleading posts?

We'll wait for Whooter to show evidence of his claims, but until then we can all agree that he just made up those claims from thin air.  when he stops trying to wiggle out of it and back pedal he will either have the evidence or will have been shown to be lying again, which would be no real surprise.

No offense, Whooter, but we can't take your word for it, based on your past lies and deceptions.

When in doubt, we just go back to the original quote.  I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that there are about 200 wilderness programs or programs with a wilderness component operating in the US.  If Whooter's claims are true, he should be able to provide at least 101 examples to back up his claim.  

I also noticed that Whooter only showed one single board certified counselor for each program he listed, but his claim was "board certified counselorS" as in "more than one per program" so I would need to see at least two for every program over the span of 101 programs to believe it.  Cherry-picking 2 programs that have a single certified counselor doesn't fit the bill.  Also we would need to see that there are "licensed professionalS" (plural) who are with the kids in the field every day as Whooter also claimed earlier.

I think we can see that the truth has been stretched so far that it broke in this case, but I will be patient and wait for Whooter to provide his evidence that "most programs" have "multiple board certified counselors" and that the "field personnel are licensed providers" or drop the claim.

This is why readers have to be careful and parse the claims made by people who gain financially from the TTI.  They will say anything to promote their programs.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2010, 12:22:56 PM »
I think we have beaten the Board Certified question within wilderness programs to death.  Lets take a look at Residential Programs and what they provide for trained professionals.

Here is a program Team Model:

    * Clinical Director
    * Students assigned a master's level counselor who heads a team
    * Individual Counseling 1x/week
    * Group Counseling 3x/week
    * Team Groups, Themed Groups (Mood Management, Adoption, Loss, Eating Disorders, Relapse Prevention)


We should investigate the types of people they hire to support this model that they market to the parents.



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2010, 12:32:51 PM »
So now you admit that of all wilderness programs in the US, there are only two certified counselors.  I knew we would come to this point at some time.  You made up a big, phony lie and now are stuck with the inability to prove it so the back pedal is in effect.  Nice try, but you failed again, Whooter.  The facts always catch you with your pants down, don't they?

Readers should understand that Whooter is almost always caught lying like this and attempts to wiggle free from his lies by changing the subject.

Whooter now admits he lied in his OP.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2010, 12:45:04 PM »
This is what I was responding to, DJ.  I am not attacking you or calling you a liar.  I am just clearing up a misunderstanding on your part.  Maybe not all wilderness programs have board Certified counselors and maybe I was incorrect when I stated that I thought most of the wilderness programs had them.  We would have to review them all to know for sure.  but we can all agree that some do and this is a big step if you look at programs from 20, 30 years ago.

Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.

Link 1
Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling,

I looked at a few more wilderness Programs and they had board certified Counselors also.  Lets take a look:


Link 2  Stone Mountain

Mark is a Nationally Certified Counselor through the National Board of Certified Counselors and is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of North Carolina.

Link 3
and was accredited by the National Board of Certified Counselors (NBCC)


Link 4

Tatum Miller, LCPC

She is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor (LCPC) and Board Certified



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »