Author Topic: deleted September 8, 2011  (Read 12258 times)

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Offline Judge Joe Brown

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deleted September 8, 2011
« on: December 09, 2010, 02:47:04 PM »
deleted September 8, 2011
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 12:35:39 AM by Judge Joe Brown »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 03:29:33 PM »
Great thread!

I think we should start with what education levels are needed for the various positions.  I am sure that most of the people have at least a little education, highschool diploma GED etc. which may be fine for some positions but we should define the standard first in order to determine if the people they hire meet the minimal requirements for their job position.



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Offline seamus

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 07:40:54 PM »
UMMMM.....Lemme see 1.cause they work cheap
                                    2. cause they'll buy in,drink the cool-aid ,and not know any better.
                                    3. they cant be held accountable to any certifications or licences.

                                                                             Does that about cover it? :nods:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 07:56:19 PM »
Quote from: "seamus"
UMMMM.....Lemme see 1.cause they work cheap
                                    2. cause they'll buy in,drink the cool-aid ,and not know any better.
                                    3. they cant be held accountable to any certifications or licences.

                                                                             Does that about cover it? :nods:

Not a bad idea, seamus, think of the profits they could reap if they could just do "on the job training" with high school drop outs lol.  Maybe that is the next generation of schools!



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline seamus

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 08:31:56 PM »
Where in the hell do you think straight got ITS staff? Though I sometimes say things in a thin( ok,ok not so thin) layer of sarcasm,that doesnt keep it form being true. Truly a trait of a fraudulent establishment. Caveat emptor and all that shit.
 Why is it Ive never seen any of the wilderness programs having  a trained/ certified First Responder/ W.E.M.T./E.M.T/or Paramedic out the backside of beyond with "troubled" youth? Even if the "therapy" end of it isnt bs,what good does it do a dead child? I fucking hate the Idea of some kid dying some where because profit was more important than life itself. Why do kids die in programs for horseshit reasons? Just to be the devils advocate lemme say this(with a grain of sarcasm)
 What a marketing gimmick from hell it would be to boast of a program actually having such staff. But alas, it might cut into somebodys profits,so ........Even you gotta admit governmental,stauatory reqirements for progams are shoddy as hell.
And that doesent get into the abuse/mindfuck end of it.
 If it were MY child,id want to see documentation for this "fully trained" staff. If memory serves, at straight they were called "para-pofessional", which in reality meant SQUAT.....I seriously doubt there ever could be a " good " program,just because of such issues. Just think of how fucking EXPENSIVE it would have to be to turn a fucking profit,and if it didnt turn a profit, it wouldnt exist( Where would the profit motive be?) at all.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 09:23:50 PM »
Quote from: "seamus"
Where in the hell do you think straight got ITS staff? Though I sometimes say things in a thin( ok,ok not so thin) layer of sarcasm,that doesnt keep it form being true. Truly a trait of a fraudulent establishment. Caveat emptor and all that shit.
 Why is it Ive never seen any of the wilderness programs having  a trained/ certified First Responder/ W.E.M.T./E.M.T/or Paramedic out the backside of beyond with "troubled" youth? Even if the "therapy" end of it isnt bs,what good does it do a dead child? I fucking hate the Idea of some kid dying some where because profit was more important than life itself. Why do kids die in programs for horseshit reasons? Just to be the devils advocate lemme say this(with a grain of sarcasm)
 What a marketing gimmick from hell it would be to boast of a program actually having such staff. But alas, it might cut into somebodys profits,so ........Even you gotta admit governmental,stauatory reqirements for progams are shoddy as hell.
And that doesent get into the abuse/mindfuck end of it.
 If it were MY child,id want to see documentation for this "fully trained" staff. If memory serves, at straight they were called "para-pofessional", which in reality meant SQUAT.....I seriously doubt there ever could be a " good " program,just because of such issues. Just think of how fucking EXPENSIVE it would have to be to turn a fucking profit,and if it didnt turn a profit, it wouldnt exist( Where would the profit motive be?) at all.

It has gotten much better since then, Seamus.  Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.  I am with you and I also wish they had more requirements around getting these people better trained as first responders or at least getting more trained people into the field.
The wilderness programs are a hell of a lot safer than they were 10, 20 30 years ago and a lot more effective.



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Offline psy

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 12:40:50 AM »
Note:

when a program representative says: "we've changed" or "we don't do that anymore".

he/she really means "we're calling it something else, but it's pretty much the exact same thing."

I have no doubt that programs today are hiring people with records, or at the very least with very little qualification.  WWASP being a good example.  There are countless others, including "reputable" programs, who have been caught employing under-qualified personnel.
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 06:21:39 AM »
They measure it with the body count.

CONFIRM tHE KILL.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 06:45:22 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Note:

when a program representative says: "we've changed" or "we don't do that anymore".

he/she really means "we're calling it something else, but it's pretty much the exact same thing."

I have no doubt that programs today are hiring people with records, or at the very least with very little qualification.  WWASP being a good example.  There are countless others, including "reputable" programs, who have been caught employing under-qualified personnel.

Thats why it is important for parents to check themselves.  Qualifications can be verified and parents can ask to speak with other parents who who have had kids go thru the process.  They can ask to see if studies have been done.  etc.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 09:03:49 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

That's an awfully big claim to make without citation.  You'll have to provide some evidence for this, Whooter.  I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2010, 10:43:30 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

That's an awfully big claim to make without citation.  You'll have to provide some evidence for this, Whooter.  I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.

From my readings I was under the impression all Wilderness programs today hired licensed professionals.  

Here are the people from SUWS as an example:

Link

SUWS

Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling,
 
Jesse Quam is the Clinical Director for SUWS of the Carolinas. Before earning his Masters of Clinical Social Work from Boston College (May, 2005), Jesse worked for Aspen Achievement Academy,

Clinical Team

4 LPC’s
2 LCSW’s
1 Phd



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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2010, 12:31:00 PM »
First this...

Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the wilderness programs have licensed personnel which are with the kids and are backed up with Board certified counselors.

Presented as fact that at least 50% plus one wilderness programs fit this bill.  

Quote from: "Whooter"
From my readings I was under the impression all Wilderness programs today hired licensed professionals.  

Now presented as Whooter's impression based on one counselor from one program having a certification.

I didn't see anywhere even in the sole example you provided that any counselor was actually licensed to practice either.

So, of all wilderness programs in the US today, Whooter has shown that one has one certified counselor, but has failed in a miserable way to prove that the majority of wilderness programs have certified counselors and has not shown any counselors of any wilderness programs to be licensed to practice therapy.

You have to parse Whooter's statements carefully because what he presents as "facts" are actually just his uninformed opinions with no facts at all.
Quote from: "Whooter"
From my readings I was under the impression...

Don't you read Fornits, Whooter?  We have posted dozens of examples of wilderness programs hiring uneducated, unlicensed, uncertified "counselors."  This is usually posted in conjunction with an article describing how a kid in their care was maimed or killed by these very same unqualified people.  Let's knock off the lying, Whooter.  You know as well as the rest of us do that your premise is completely false.  You are now in retreat mode to distance yourself from your ridiculous and false assertion.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 12:38:30 PM by Dysfunction Junction »
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Offline Dysfunction Junction

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2010, 12:35:20 PM »
Quote from: "seamus"
UMMMM.....Lemme see 1.cause they work cheap
                                    2. cause they'll buy in,drink the cool-aid ,and not know any better.
                                    3. they cant be held accountable to any certifications or licences.

                                                                             Does that about cover it? :nods:

Pretty much, yes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2010, 01:37:30 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I have never, ever seen a single "Board Certified Counselor" and here you're claiming most wilderness programs have them backing up "licensed personnel"?  I call bullshit.

Lets see, DJ has never seen a Board Certified Counselor in Wilderness Programs.  The first program I looked at was SUWS of the Carolinas

Here are the people from SUWS as an example:

Link

SUWS

Leah is a Certified Counselor with the National Board of Certified Counselors, has a Masters of Science Degree in Community Counseling,
 
Jesse Quam is the Clinical Director for SUWS of the Carolinas. Before earning his Masters of Clinical Social Work from Boston College (May, 2005), Jesse worked for Aspen Achievement Academy,

Clinical Team

4 LPC’s
2 LCSW’s
1 Phd

So we can conclude that wilderness Programs Hire licensed and Board Certified employees.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline heretik

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Re: Why does Aspen hire people with no education?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 01:47:07 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "psy"
Note:

when a program representative says: "we've changed" or "we don't do that anymore".

he/she really means "we're calling it something else, but it's pretty much the exact same thing."

I have no doubt that programs today are hiring people with records, or at the very least with very little qualification.  WWASP being a good example.  There are countless others, including "reputable" programs, who have been caught employing under-qualified personnel.

Thats why it is important for parents to check themselves.  Qualifications can be verified and parents can ask to speak with other parents who who have had kids go thru the process.  They can ask to see if studies have been done.  etc.



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Quote
"including "reputable" programs"

Geesh, would these be Aspen programs.

Quote
Thats why it is important for parents to check themselves.  Qualifications can be verified and parents can ask to speak with other parents who who have had kids go thru the process.  They can ask to see if studies have been done.  etc.

This is just another classical asinine statement that just jumps from your brain to your fingers. Yeah every parent is just doing this Whooter.
OK, lets say the parents do try to investigate the qualifications of employees as you say. One would assume the said program Directors are fully aware of their staff qualifications and/or lack of. That being said, Whooter do you really think that the Director of said program is going to allow this information to be made readily available especially staff that barely made it through H.S.
Shit, the programs can't even find Directors with the proper schooling and we all know know that information was not made available until a program closing "outed" the info, (Bitz, in case you were wondering).
Whooter, all your foolishness is so stupid really. You could give a rats ass about children.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »