Independent Study Shows Success.

[Gonzotherapy]

No one but me and the paying customer?  Only 2 people?  Oh my goodness, that cant be worth it.  Lets take a look to see if this independent study with 3rd party oversight which was presented to the APA's annual conference which shows these programs to be up to 85% successful is still there!

Link

Oh, Good.  Geesh, Bruce, you should notify some people.  Seems no one believes you.

Let me know if you want to take another look at the study or if anyone from the APA takes your position. lol



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Here's the biggest problem Whootbag, residential outcomes pg 13. This is where she makes her mistake and is obviously writing an advertisement and not an objective study.

Teens who are released prior to graduating the program against the advice of program staff threw a wrench in her whole analysis. They reported doing much better than her predictions. She counters this by conjecturing that the teens and their parents who left before graduating "consciously or unconciously" lied about problems because of the confrontations between parents and staff for early release.

This is far from objective and even farther from an accurate scientific analysis. It is nothing more than an attempt, and a poor one at that, to disguise a program advertisement in a "medical" report.

I write basic scientific reports on a regular basis, this one does not even adhere to elementary guidelines.

Once again I say, this Dr. ought to be ashamed of herself, not only for selling her morals, but for a well below par analysis.

[Whooter]

Here's the biggest problem Whootbag, residential outcomes pg 13. This is where she makes her mistake and is obviously writing an advertisement and not an objective study.

Lets stop here for a moment:

You forgot that the study was overseen and approved by a third party review board.  (WWIB).



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[Dysfunction Junction]

No one but me and the paying customer?  Only 2 people?  Oh my goodness, that cant be worth it.  Lets take a look to see if this independent study with 3rd party oversight which was presented to the APA's annual conference which shows these programs to be up to 85% successful is still there!

Link

Oh, Good.  Geesh, Bruce, you should notify some people.  Seems no one believes you.

Let me know if you want to take another look at the study or if anyone from the APA takes your position. lol



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Here's the biggest problem Whootbag, residential outcomes pg 13. This is where she makes her mistake and is obviously writing an advertisement and not an objective study.

Teens who are released prior to graduating the program against the advice of program staff threw a wrench in her whole analysis. They reported doing much better than her predictions. She counters this by conjecturing that the teens and their parents who left before graduating "consciously or unconciously" lied about problems because of the confrontations between parents and staff for early release.

This is far from objective and even farther from an accurate scientific analysis. It is nothing more than an attempt, and a poor one at that, to disguise a program advertisement in a "medical" report.

I write basic scientific reports on a regular basis, this one does not even adhere to elementary guidelines.

Once again I say, this Dr. ought to be ashamed of herself, not only for selling her morals, but for a well below par analysis.

Gonzo, this "study" has been completely debunked in other threads.  It's not science.  It's junk.

[Whooter]

Gonzo, this "study" has been completely debunked in other threads.  It's not science.  It's junk.

Oh my goodness, "Dysfuntional Yeoman" debunked the study?  Someone should notify the American psychiatric Association (APA) and the review board who approved and oversaw the study.

Are we talking about the same study?  The one which surveyed 1,000 parents and kids and found that up to 85% of the kids were still on a good path after a year?

Lets take another look:

Link

Oh, Good, still intact.

Let me know if you want to take another look at the study or if anyone from the APA takes your position. lol



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[Gonzotherapy]

Are we talking about the same study?  The one which surveyed 1,000 parents and kids and found that up to 85% of the kids were still on a good path after a year?

Lets take another look:

Link

Oh, Good, still intact.

Let me know if you want to take another look at the study or if anyone from the APA takes your position. lol



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So if I am to understand you correctly, you think that just because someone presents a report that it is automatically declared good valid information. I'd give my left nut to live in the fantasy world you've created here.

Show me a response from the APA verifying their whole-hearted acceptance of this study. I've looked, can't seem to find anyone who has jumped on board with this from the APA.

http://cafety.org/component/content/art ... s-aug-2006
NOTE: This is an ASPEN EDUCATION GROUP funded study. Dr. Behrens is a former employee of an Aspen school - information left undisclosed by Dr. Behrens.

[Gonzotherapy]

Are we talking about the same study?  The one which surveyed 1,000 parents and kids and found that up to 85% of the kids were still on a good path after a year?

Lets take another look:

Link

Oh, Good, still intact.

Let me know if you want to take another look at the study or if anyone from the APA takes your position. lol



...

So if I am to understand you correctly, you think that just because someone presents a report that it is automatically declared good valid information. I'd give my left nut to live in the fantasy world you've created here.

Show me a response from the APA verifying their whole-hearted acceptance of this study. I've looked, can't seem to find anyone who has jumped on board with this from the APA.

http://cafety.org/component/content/art ... s-aug-2006
NOTE: This is an ASPEN EDUCATION GROUP funded study. Dr. Behrens is a former employee of an Aspen school - information left undisclosed by Dr. Behrens.

That is so odd. You mean she didn't tell the APA that she used to work for Aspen Education and as she currently holds Aspen Education as a client, she profits when they profit? How about that Whooter, isn't that just so strange? I mean, her benefitting from these schools wouldn't skew her report at all would it? No, never.

[Whooter]

That is so odd. You mean she didn't tell the APA that she used to work for Aspen Education and as she currently holds Aspen Education as a client, she profits when they profit? How about that Whooter, isn't that just so strange? I mean, her benefitting from these schools wouldn't skew her report at all would it? No, never.

What do you mean doctors were involved in the heart study!  Do you mean to tell me that heart surgeons were actually involved in the "Framingham heart study"?  This invalidates the study.  These people use to work in hospitals.  Conflict of interest !!

See what I mean?  anyway, there was a review board which looks for those types of things. They look at how much money is passing hands, who works (ed) for who.  Why would someone stand up and say "Oh, I use to be a heart surgeon but now I am involved in a heart study"?  People would be saying "why does that matter?  Did you take money from them?"  ... etc.  So to avoid all these questions and confusion they have "review boards" who oversee the study and approve it.  They look for these conflict of interests like you mentioned.  If the review board found a conflict of interest then they would not approve the study, thats their job.

The study was subsequently presented to the APA at their annual convention.



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[Gonzotherapy]

That is so odd. You mean she didn't tell the APA that she used to work for Aspen Education and as she currently holds Aspen Education as a client, she profits when they profit? How about that Whooter, isn't that just so strange? I mean, her benefitting from these schools wouldn't skew her report at all would it? No, never.

What do you mean doctors were involved in the heart study!  Do you mean to tell me that heart surgeons were actually involved in the "Framingham heart study"?  This invalidates the study.  These people use to work in hospitals.  Conflict of interest !!

See what I mean?  anyway, there was a review board which looks for those types of things. They look at how much money is passing hands, who works (ed) for who.  Why would someone stand up and say "Oh, I use to be a heart surgeon but now I am involved in a heart study"?  People would be saying "why does that matter?  Did you take money from them?"  ... etc.  So to avoid all these questions and confusion they have "review boards" who oversee the study and approve it.  They look for these conflict of interests like you mentioned.  If the review board found a conflict of interest then they would not approve the study, thats their job.



The study was subsequently presented to the APA at their annual convention.



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Are you really this stupid or are you making a determined effort?

Comparing the two is completely ridiculous.

There is a conflict of interest.

Maybe someone needs to bring it to the attention of the APA.

You forget one thing Whooter, you are old and past your prime. Some of us just got out of the gate. Corruption is the currency of most if not all government organizations. I'm sorry I have no more time to argue with your stupidity today. Finals week.

[Whooter]

Show me a response from the APA verifying their whole-hearted acceptance of this study. I've looked, can't seem to find anyone who has jumped on board with this from the APA.

lol, Gonzo, I dont think the APA has given a whole hearted acceptance of anything.  They all disagree with each other.  Geesh, look at the argument between them on group therapy vs individual therapy alone!  lol.

The study was presented at their Annual Meeting and since then no one has come out against it.  If they felt it was flawed or was putting kids in harms way they would have spoken out or one or two of them would have because that is what they do.  But that hasn't happened.



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[Whooter]

That is so odd. You mean she didn't tell the APA that she used to work for Aspen Education and as she currently holds Aspen Education as a client, she profits when they profit? How about that Whooter, isn't that just so strange? I mean, her benefitting from these schools wouldn't skew her report at all would it? No, never.

What do you mean doctors were involved in the heart study!  Do you mean to tell me that heart surgeons were actually involved in the "Framingham heart study"?  This invalidates the study.  These people use to work in hospitals.  Conflict of interest !!

See what I mean?  anyway, there was a review board which looks for those types of things. They look at how much money is passing hands, who works (ed) for who.  Why would someone stand up and say "Oh, I use to be a heart surgeon but now I am involved in a heart study"?  People would be saying "why does that matter?  Did you take money from them?"  ... etc.  So to avoid all these questions and confusion they have "review boards" who oversee the study and approve it.  They look for these conflict of interests like you mentioned.  If the review board found a conflict of interest then they would not approve the study, thats their job.



The study was subsequently presented to the APA at their annual convention.



...

Are you really this stupid or are you making a determined effort?

Comparing the two is completely ridiculous.

There is a conflict of interest.

Maybe someone needs to bring it to the attention of the APA.

You forget one thing Whooter, you are old and past your prime. Some of us just got out of the gate. Corruption is the currency of most if not all government organizations. I'm sorry I have no more time to argue with your stupidity today. Finals week.

I understand that you feel there is a conflict of interest, because you want it to be so.  But the review board would have caught any conflict.  How is it possible that you know more than they do and that is their job?

Call the APA or the review board and see if you can convince them.  They have already looked into it but may fill you in on the details if you sound credible to them.  If it gets debunked then they will post a statement.  One thing the APA can agree on is they dont want people to get hurt especially kids.

Let us know how it turns out, Gonzo.



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[Whooter]

Are you really this stupid or are you making a determined effort?

 I'm sorry I have no more time to argue with your stupidity today. Finals week.

Ha,Ha,Ha Thats funny..... Good luck with finals, we can see that you are still learning.  Study hard my boy and keep your mind open.  I think you will find that the more you learn and the more educated you become the more you will realize how little you know.  Once you start to realize this or reach a certain education level you will cease from calling other people stupid.  You tilted your hand with your attack as you will soon learn as you gain knowledge.



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[RobertBruce]

That's not really coming from you is it Whooter? I mean if calling people stupid is a sign of closed mindedness what do your constant lies about people who have proven you wrong mean?

That aside you seem unable to get around the fact that this "study" was bought and paid for to a person who already made her living off this industry to begin with. Your doctor analogy is as flawed and off base as all your other analogies. A medical study requires a doctor's review, plus a doctor who takes part in a study isn't working directly to line his own pocket. Your "study"was desgined with that intent and no other. Your kiddie prison industry can easily be conducted by an independent party, but your industry doesn't want that because then the truth about how abusive these programs are would just be reinforced.

Furthermore...

Oh, Good. Geesh, Bruce, you should notify some people. Seems no one believes you.

Let me know if you want to take another look at the study or if anyone from the APA takes your position. lol

According to you if the APA signs off on something it translates to only one person agreeing with what's said. You were unable to understand how any group passes a referendum while you swearing up and down there were only 10,000 psychologist int he US. Remember?

[Whooter]

Someone should notify the American psychiatric Association (APA) and the review board who approved and oversaw the study.  Bruce has indicated that there are 10,000 psychiatrists in the APA and so far after all these years not one of them felt the study is flawed after reviewing it.  Just a few fornits posters objected to it so far.

Lets take another look:

Link



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[Ursus]

Bruce has indicated that there are 10,000 psychiatrists in the APA and so far after all these years not one of them felt the study is flawed after reviewing it.

• Are you trying to imply that 10,000 psychiatrists reviewed this "study?"

• Does listening to a presentation at a conference equate to a "review" for you, Whooter?

The study was presented at their Annual Meeting and since then no one has come out against it. If they felt it was flawed or was putting kids in harms way they would have spoken out or one or two of them would have because that is what they do. But that hasn't happened.

[/list]
• And, how many years has this "study" been out?


*I* find it noteworthy that neither Behrens nor Aspen has been able to get it published anywhere. That's when it gets some peer review, lol. Maybe they already tried submitting it and... no one wanted it!

Now, there are some publications where you can pay to have your studies published, but there are still certain STANDARDS to be met by the material in question...

[Whooter]

*I* find it noteworthy that neither Behrens nor Aspen has been able to get it published anywhere. That's when it gets some peer review, lol. Maybe they already tried submitting it and... no one wanted it!

Now, there are some publications where you can pay to have your studies published, but there are still certain STANDARDS to be met by the material in question...

I wasnt aware that they were trying to get the study published.  Do you have a link?



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