The smoking gun - do survivors lie?

[Whooter]

If someone was dragged from their home in shackles in the middle of the night how could that not be described as kidnapping? Just 'cause it's a kid I guess. you could never get away with "transporting" an adult.
Not much of a lie or an exaggeration.

I can see the kid maybe thinking this at first.  But fairly quickly the child understands that it is an escort service.  they stop and get McDonalds, there is no ransom involved, no amber alert is initiated, and no one goes to jail for a crime.  I am sure the local law enforcement is aware of the activities.

If kidnapping did apply then these places would call themselves kidnapping services.

I think where many people may be getting confused is that is this was done to an adult then it would be considered kidnapping.  But the people would be put in jail for this because you need a persons consent.



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[Whooter]

Although it may appear that I set up this thread to bash people (survivors).  I really think this is an issue with credibility and if the language was brought more in line with everyday definitions then reports of abuse would be taken more seriously here on fornits and else where in my opinion.

By pointing this out I think changes would help the credibility of fornits.



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[DannyB II]

Another derail thread created solely to tarnish survivors. It's sad really.  Specifically when it originates from someone who takes great pride in pernicious perfidy. The interesting thing is some of the people he accuses of lying are the most balls-to-the-wall straightforward people imaginable.

According to who....?

[DannyB II]

If someone was dragged from their home in shackles in the middle of the night how could that not be described as kidnapping? Just 'cause it's a kid I guess. you could never get away with "transporting" an adult.
Not much of a lie or an exaggeration.

Because if the child was threatening and tormenting his family to the point of they were seriously scared for their safety, then it is not kidnapping.
Hey, try this 2 cops walk in his bedroom snatch his butt drag him to the squad car throw his ass in the car and cart him off to jail. Is that kidnapping. No it is called going to jail, well call this going to a program.
Ya know not every story is a picture you have in your head.

[Shadyacres]

  Do you know why people on fornits use kidnapping, Gulag etc. to describe things and events where no one else does?




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Because we, unlike you, have all had the opportunity to examine at least one of these places up close and personally from the inside.  These places that you advocate for so tirelessly.  You say our accounts are "fantasies that do not exist in the real world", but that is wrong.  They do not exist TO the real world and that is what we want to change.

[RobertBruce]

John why dont you instead of just making vauge blanket accusations, provide a specific post of something you believe a survivor said that was either a lie or an exaggeration.

Your generalizations accomplish nothing.

[Ursus]

It has been established throughout the Troubled Teen industry that the graduates and non graduates who did not do well have a need to embellish or lie about their time spent at one or more of the programs.

Has it been established? Where? Please cite your source or proof for that presumption!

The only source *I've* come across for that kind of statement has been from EdCons and program proponents trying to pooh-pooh the credibility of abuse accounts. And those folk have a pretty compelling incentive to protect their profits.

[Deprogrammed]

Whooter,
Find one post where you think I embellished and lied. Bring it on! Let's examine it.
-DP

[Watchful Yeoman]

I dismiss the premise of this thread based on the OP's credibility problems.

I fabricated a son

Statements like the one above make me dismiss this thread out of hand.  Now, if some credible poster wants to start a credible topic, I'd be glad to weigh in with my thoughts.  This thread is desperate attention-whoring and deflection from Whooter's really bad week that culminated in his confession that he made up his fake family which he does not have.  Where do you go from there, really?

"Survivors lying" hasn't been established by any credible person, so the rest of this thread is fluff.

[Anne Bonney]

I was kidnapped and held captive in a Gulag where I was abused 24/7. The place should be shut down. Every program is abusive and performs brainwashing on people. Not one child has ever benefited from a program. If they tell you this then they must be brainwashed themselves.

Citation please.  I don't recall seeing that post.  Who posted it?

[Froderik]

Fucking liar.

[Whooter]

I was kidnapped and held captive in a Gulag where I was abused 24/7. The place should be shut down. Every program is abusive and performs brainwashing on people. Not one child has ever benefited from a program. If they tell you this then they must be brainwashed themselves.

Citation please.  I don't recall seeing that post.  Who posted it?

Its an example of the language used here on fornits, Anne.  I am trying to make a point about the descriptive words used on fornits... i.e Gulag, Kidnapping,Brainwashing etc.



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[Dysfunction Junction]

Correction, Anne, it's a bunch of BS made up by Whooter that was never posted here.  Another fabricated story from the congenital liar Whooter.

[Dysfunction Junction]

I fabricated a son

Fucking liar.

I admit that

Glad we got to the bottom of it.

[Whooter]

Has it been established? Where? Please cite your source or proof for that presumption!

The only source *I've* come across for that kind of statement has been from EdCons and program proponents trying to pooh-pooh the credibility of abuse accounts. And those folk have a pretty compelling incentive to protect their profits.

I think yours is a good example, Ursus.  Imagine a kid writing or talking to an edcon or anyone after returning from a program.  The child says:

Response “A”
My time at XYZ Program was terrible.  The intake process was humiliating because I was required to disrobe and change into the schools uniforms in front of another staff member.  Most of the staff were nice but this one guy Robert Newly would scream at me and forced me to miss several meals.  He made me uncomfortable with some of his contacts which I felt were inappropriate. The school wasn’t bad overall and I managed to move ahead with my studies.  The food wasn’t great.......

Response “B”
After I was kidnapped and transported to the Gulag where I was incarcerated for 16 months I was systematically tortured and abused by the prison guards, starved and held in isolation.  I underwent extensive brainwashing and now have PTSD.

Response “A” would raise a concern and the person hearing this would call immediately to inquire about this Robert Newly and report the findings.  Response “A” was communicated well enough to be believed as credible.

Response “B” would be treated as a sarcastic immature response indicating that the child never bothered to apply themselves and still seeking attention.  I think we can agree that the abuse allegations would not be taken seriously for good reason.

I don’t think you should blame the Edcon for pooh-poohing the credibility of Responder “B”.  A big part of the reason some survivors are not believed is because of the way they communicate in my opinion.  I think listening to many posters speak here on fornits confirms that this language is used very often.  If survivors really were concerned about credibility they would address this issue or at least be open to the possibilities.



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