Author Topic: deleted September 8, 2011  (Read 2219 times)

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Offline Judge Joe Brown

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deleted September 8, 2011
« on: November 27, 2010, 12:19:05 AM »
deleted September 8, 2011
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 12:34:55 AM by Judge Joe Brown »

Offline iamartsy

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2010, 01:46:07 AM »
Saying they will discharge you AMA (against medical advice) meaning insurance won't pay the mega bill. Also they will put you on suicide watch; thus, forcing you to have a hearing with a court and little if no representation for you! When they pulled this on me, I was not suicidal! I was finally discharged "at patient's request". The insurance paid but it was like a "scarlet letter". It really mean they had screwed up and and they knew it. It was that or malpractice!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RTP2003

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2010, 04:21:33 AM »
They will attempt to have you court-ordered to complete the program.  During this attempt, they will coerce, cajole, plead, threaten, etc. in an attempt to get you to go along with it.  Prior to and during the hearing, they will lie and commit perjury.  This was my experience, when Straight attempted to have me court-ordered.  Chris Yarnold lied his sorry ass off, but it didn't amount to shit 'cause my lawyer was able to discredit his "expert opinion" with ease.  Fuck that limey asswipe, he's an abuser just like Newton, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2010, 10:31:55 AM »
I went through the same thing. I had been there about a year and knew I could leave and get away with it. All of the sudden they started talking about having me court ordered. They tried to claim they could simply have it done without a hearing or any testimony from me at all. Also keeping in mind I had no criminal record whatsoever. I knew they had nothing so I told them exactly where they could put their court order and walked out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Samara

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2010, 11:18:22 AM »
They lied to my parents. The oft-repeated, "if you pull her out now, she will be dead, insane or in jail" within weeks. Which as I've said, makes no sense since I was not violent, an addict or a criminal.  They also, I later discovered, made up parts of my history I supposedly confessed to generate fear in my parents. The funny thing is that before CEDU, I really didn't keep a lot of stuff from my parents. CEDU was a master manipulator and played them like a fiddle.They basically made my parents feel fear and responsibility for what would happen to me if they pulled me out.

Of course, when I did split, I did not become a criminal, an addict, a suicide or a drop out. I was a straight A student with a lot of pain and unresolved issues filled with cultic mumbo jumbo, looking good on paper but at simultaneously distrustful and overexposed to everyone.
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Offline Samara

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 11:22:23 AM »
Also, of course, the program told most of the parents that if your kid splits, you must tell him you will lock him up in the worst dark hole of a program imaginable and you will be effectively shackled.(CEDU said this program was Provo.)  This made no sense as our program kids were not violent or criminals. We were all so scared of going someplace worse that we tried to be compliant.  We all felt betrayed by our parents for even entertaining the idea, much less threatening us with it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2010, 05:02:14 PM »
HLA claimed the same thing. "If you run you can count on packing your bags for Three Springs." Just more examples of the lies and manipulations these places will put out in order to continue abusing kids for profit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Awake

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2010, 05:17:12 PM »
What lengths will they NOT go through to keep kids in programs? I think it can be expected that they will do anything within their legal rights, without question. Like any other business it’s loyalty is to itself and to create sustained long term profits and it will always place it’s own interests before competing interests, and that includes the teen and family if they get in the way. That is the legal obligation of any corporate business, programs are no exclusion. The only sense of morality or accountability is to itself, if providing the illusion of successful results is cheaper than getting real results, then programs will do it. Your average shareholder doesn’t care what the company is doing to make a profit as long as those profits outweigh the legal ramifications of it’s actions.  I don’t think programs should be trusted to run under their own moral authority with that kind of risk. No one has less rights than a troubled teen in a program. Even mass murderers have the right to due process of law. Prison guards cannot psychoanalyze prisoners under threats of punishment. There is no other area in our society that permits that kind of totalitarian control over someone, and there are varieties of abuses that can occur here that are undefined under our laws and/or very difficult to prosecute and place accountability within the program organization. Teens face many situations in programs that are psychologically harmful, and very little of it could ever truly be prosecuted as abuse under law.

Like Samara mentioned before, is it abusive to use threats as motivation, such as being sent to a worse program, or scaring parents by saying they will be dead, insane, or in jail? Is manipulating the communication between family and friends abuse? Is it abusive to manipulate teens’ behaviors with peer pressure that is given under the coercive direction of the staff? Is it abuse to force kids to focus on personal problems and endure therapy without their consent under threat of punishment?  These places can act like a pyramid, or multilevel marketing scheme capable of using the most insidious forms of group dynamics only in this case the kids are selling lies to each other in order to gain their own freedom, but that may be a legitimate business model in behavior modification. This list could go on and on, but much of it will find it’s way around the law, or lack thereof, without much difficulty. There is no reason to believe that programs wouldn’t utilize any number of methods at the expense of the teen rather than the program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline heretik

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2010, 06:09:34 PM »
duplicate...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 06:14:28 PM by heretik »

Offline heretik

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 06:13:26 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
What lengths will they NOT go through to keep kids in programs? I think it can be expected that they will do anything within their legal rights, without question. Like any other business it’s loyalty is to itself and to create sustained long term profits and it will always place it’s own interests before competing interests, and that includes the teen and family if they get in the way. That is the legal obligation of any corporate business, programs are no exclusion. The only sense of morality or accountability is to itself, if providing the illusion of successful results is cheaper than getting real results, then programs will do it. Your average shareholder doesn’t care what the company is doing to make a profit as long as those profits outweigh the legal ramifications of it’s actions.  I don’t think programs should be trusted to run under their own moral authority with that kind of risk. No one has less rights than a troubled teen in a program. Even mass murderers have the right to due process of law. Prison guards cannot psychoanalyze prisoners under threats of punishment. There is no other area in our society that permits that kind of totalitarian control over someone, and there are varieties of abuses that can occur here that are undefined under our laws and/or very difficult to prosecute and place accountability within the program organization. Teens face many situations in programs that are psychologically harmful, and very little of it could ever truly be prosecuted as abuse under law.

Like Samara mentioned before, is it abusive to use threats as motivation, such as being sent to a worse program, or scaring parents by saying they will be dead, insane, or in jail? Is manipulating the communication between family and friends abuse? Is it abusive to manipulate teens’ behaviors with peer pressure that is given under the coercive direction of the staff? Is it abuse to force kids to focus on personal problems and endure therapy without their consent under threat of punishment?  These places can act like a pyramid, or multilevel marketing scheme capable of using the most insidious forms of group dynamics only in this case the kids are selling lies to each other in order to gain their own freedom, but that may be a legitimate business model in behavior modification. This list could go on and on, but much of it will find it’s way around the law, or lack thereof, without much difficulty. There is no reason to believe that programs wouldn’t utilize any number of methods at the expense of the teen rather than the program.

@Awake,
You are absolutely right they have to manipulate the process to make sure these children stay in there programs. It is their duty as a Corporation to protect there business, they can not have children demonstrating control over their minds and bodies. We were sent there because presumably we could not live a normal life, one without self destruction. In some cases this may be true, the child may have a illness that needs to be treated. The programs can not have this child in particular (one in need) shouting from the rooftops that their care was inadequate. They can not have their parents even suspecting that the care and attention being given to their children is fraught with negligence and ineptitude.
Very bad for business.

So if the Director of the program wants to continue being employed they had better make sure these children stay in these programs as they told their parents they should. Better for the program if the child acts out and shows arrogance, belligerence and a tad rebellion. I would not doubt they are counting on them to act in such a way.

The more I read and investigate this industry it is clear they are still daydreaming to believe that they are helping anyone, I don't say this to be glib either. Most articles I have read they are old and outdated (with the studies posted to date) the people who are advocating for these programs are spouting the same nonsense I heard 30 years ago.
I am not saying that Sam Ervin's testimony was not clear and concise (posted 30 years ago) but where did this knowledge go. The corporations that own the programs today had not even gained a foothold as they have today. Why was the information gleaned from this the study just archived.

@Gatekeeper,
Thanks for the topic, hope I stayed on the subject.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline iamartsy

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2010, 10:14:01 PM »
@Awake
I wish I could sum it up the way you do! You put our pasts into words so well. Thank you!
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Offline Ursus

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2010, 10:48:19 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
What lengths will they NOT go through to keep kids in programs? I think it can be expected that they will do anything within their legal rights, without question.
And in some ways ... not so much in their legal rights. There's a lot of grey material there, as well as some which is extraordinarily not grey at all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2010, 10:50:38 PM »
Most programmies don't have issues lying to courts in order to get a child court ordered. I saw it happen numerous times.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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Re: What lengths will programs go to keep you?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 08:41:06 AM »
Of course, it gets much worse when the program in question is under investigation. This was the case when I made my final exit from Straight, Inc. in late `82. I was not aware of the investigation till after I got out and even then only vaguely aware of the implications. That's the head trip part of the trap. My family had been involved in the Seed and Straight for something like a dozen years, or since I was 6 years old. I was so acculturated to all the craziness that I didn't really understand how wrong it all was or really believe that anyone would help me.

First my mother and a couple of other program mothers tried to kidnap me out of my bed at my brother's house. Given the choice between finally letting loose and beating all their asses and calling the law I took my chances with the law. Turns out 17 is (was?) the default age of emancipation for most purposes in Georgia. Cops sent Mom packin.

Next, my dad lied to the cops saying that I was in a department store with no money and had a history of shoplifting. Again, Stone Mountain, Georgia cops actually did their job and checked the story instead of just hustling me off to the newly opened Straight branch in Cobb County, Ga. Told Dad to quit the bullshit and leave me the hell alone.

When I tried to enroll in school my mom refused to release my transcript, so I took a couple of part time jobs to help with my brother's household expenses while I waited to come of age and get my own transcript.  A couple of weeks go by like that before I was taken into custody by a couple of SM, Ga. detectives with an extradition order signed by some program zombie judge in Florida. The only "crime" they could cite was "chronic runaway".

After a few weeks in Cobb Cnty and then Macon Cnty detention centers, the state of Florida flew me to St. Pete. When the plane landed my mom; exec staff, Nancy Gettinger; exec staff "Dr." (of education) Huge Burns and a couple of other people attempted to kidnap me before the HRS case worker could take custody of me. I spent about an hour alone in a customs room waiting for the dizzy bitch to show up.

Next stop was Fame Haven, a group home in Sarasota where the staff and residents were well familiar with the cult. I liked it there. It was a much needed rest, if a little constricting. As per their policy regarding escaped Straightlings, I was not permitted to leave the property unless accompanied by at least half a dozen staff and residents. Willy Medley had become the defacto body guard for us. He was a real good guy. I hope life has served him well.

Next was the court date. The judge granted me permission to return to my brother's home in Georgia for the holidays. By then it was only a month till my 18th birthday so I just missed the flight back.

There were a lot of kids in similar situations to mine. A few regulars around here knew Jerry Vancil, who was returned to the program just prior to his scheduled testimony. Last anyone we've been able to contact knows, Jerry tried to run from the St. Pete building out into the swamp, was pursued & tackled by a group of phasers and hasn't been seen or heard from since.

Had I known then what I know now about the political elite behind Straight and that the community never really did know or support what was going on in there, I certainly would have stayed in area and fought them. As it is, I just wanted the freedom to move on and start my life. While I was busy doing that, these same sadistic lunatics have used their political influence to extend the program into public policy. So now my oldest daughter is going through coerced 12 step "treatment" along with a nearly impossible to meet set of requirements designed to keep her under the thumb permanently. My youngest was threatened with a strip search in school because another kid said she was acting funny.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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