Kids in Program Credible?

[Whooter]

This is exactly what I am talking about Whooter, your disconnection to the actual reality. We are talking about children 13-17 in trouble (?) being admitted into a program (first day) and told everything they were used to will change, now.

I am talking about kids 13-17 also.  But being told their world will change doesnt define brainwashing.

Where does Whooter go, to some happy go lucky H.S., commemorating positive experiences of SAT's, visiting colleges, competing in sports ect... This is your perverse pleasure coming through again. You enjoy playing the fool here and yet you cry foul when called on it.

I was describing a program, Heretik, I know it is a long way from the seed or straight but things have changed in many areas of the industry of the past several decades.

.......and you really believe the audience here looks to you for credibility.

I dont think people look to me for credibility.  Its up to all of us to choose as individual who we think is credible and who is not based on their experience and willingness to view all aspect of the industry with an open mind.



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[Shadyacres]

Shady, I dont think anyone is going to buy into the (fast food/ drive through) 30 day brainwashing theory.

You really should do some research on brainwashing.  It doesn't take long at all.  Especially is such an isolated environment.

 Your experience is limited to one program and there are hundreds of different models and programs out there.

You keep saying that, but most of the use the same "treatment" models.

If you look into what is required to brainwash someone and the definition of a cult you will quickly realize that if a child is competing in sports with local highschools, going to school all day, preparing for their SAT's, visiting colleges, writing to friends and family, going into town on weekends etc. that this environment cannot support brainwashing or fit the definition of a cult.  The conditions dont exist for these theories to take hold, Shady.

And you don't get to do any of those things in programs.

It appears that you are trying to compare your experience to programs today and various other models.  Not all programs are the same.

Not exactly the same, but most use the same techniques.  I didn't think anything could be worse than Straight then I started reading about Tranquility Bay, WWASPS etc.

You come across as uniformed.

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:


Yeah, it's HER that's uninformed.  The one who has been on the inside.  You, who've never been exposed to this kind of "treatment" are the expert.   :twofinger:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Hey, I'm not a her.  And chicks dig a man in a uniform.

[Whooter]

If you look into what is required to brainwash someone and the definition of a cult you will quickly realize that if a child is competing in sports with local highschools, going to school all day, preparing for their SAT's, visiting colleges, writing to friends and family, going into town on weekends etc. that this environment cannot support brainwashing or fit the definition of a cult.  The conditions dont exist for these theories to take hold, Shady.

And you don't get to do any of those things in programs.

At ASR they prepare you for SAT's and they provide transportation to the local testing site.  There was one kid in my daughters peer group who was pulled out by his parents to visit colleges for a week.  I dont think the school was thrilled because it was disruptive but parents are able to do this.  My daughter was able to write letters to me as often as she liked and she had one friend which was approved that she could communicate with.  They had a sign-up sheet if you wanted to go into town for date night.  If you were not on restriction then you were eligible to go, although, they got to choose the person you would go on a date with.  ASR has competitive sport teams who play against the local highschools



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[Awake]

For example Hypnosis is not abusive if the person chooses it.

Interesting that you would focus in on that. Is hypnosis abusive if the person doesn't choose it?

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[Whooter]

For example Hypnosis is not abusive if the person chooses it.

Interesting that you would focus in on that. Is hypnosis abusive if the person doesn't choose it?

.

Hmmm.  That would be an interesting discussion.  I brought that up originally because it is part of the mind control / brainwashing process.



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[Awake]

For example Hypnosis is not abusive if the person chooses it.

Interesting that you would focus in on that. Is hypnosis abusive if the person doesn't choose it?

.

Hmmm.  That would be an interesting discussion.  I brought that up originally because it is part of the mind control / brainwashing process.



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Yes, I believe that’s what you were elaborating on.  How were you defining hypnosis as you were referring to it there?

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[Whooter]

For example Hypnosis is not abusive if the person chooses it.

Interesting that you would focus in on that. Is hypnosis abusive if the person doesn't choose it?

.

Hmmm.  That would be an interesting discussion.  I brought that up originally because it is part of the mind control / brainwashing process.



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Yes, I believe that’s what you were elaborating on.  How were you defining hypnosis as you were referring to it there?

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I didnt intend to define it, awake, I was just indicating that it was part of the whole brainwashing process.



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[Awake]

For example Hypnosis is not abusive if the person chooses it.

Interesting that you would focus in on that. Is hypnosis abusive if the person doesn't choose it?

.

Hmmm.  That would be an interesting discussion.  I brought that up originally because it is part of the mind control / brainwashing process.



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Yes, I believe that’s what you were elaborating on.  How were you defining hypnosis as you were referring to it there?

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I didnt intend to define it, awake, I was just indicating that it was part of the whole brainwashing process.

I’m not sure I understand. You were in the middle of insinuating someone might not be open minded enough and ‘lack the bandwidth’ to understand how individual techniques of thought reform and mind control could be abusive. Then you make a specific example out of hypnosis in that regard. Now you are saying not only do you not have any idea whether you believe using hypnosis can be abusive, but you don’t know what it is?

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[Whooter]

I’m not sure I understand. You were in the middle of insinuating someone might not be open minded enough and ‘lack the bandwidth’ to understand how individual techniques of thought reform and mind control could be abusive. Then you make a specific example out of hypnosis in that regard. Now you are saying not only do you not have any idea whether you believe using hypnosis can be abusive, but you don’t know what it is?

I didnt insinuate that anyone lacked the bandwidth to understand mind control techniques.  At least I dont think I did.

Speaking to Heretik I stated:

..... you may lack the bandwidth to understand and follow along in Awakes and my conversation.

Understanding all the various techniques of thought reform and Mind Control is not something most people know, myself included, and people spend careers working to understand all the various affects positive and negative.
I understand hypnosis as a layman, not in the professional capacity.  I have never used it myself nor studied it professionally.



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[Awake]

I’m not sure I understand. You were in the middle of insinuating someone might not be open minded enough and ‘lack the bandwidth’ to understand how individual techniques of thought reform and mind control could be abusive. Then you make a specific example out of hypnosis in that regard. Now you are saying not only do you not have any idea whether you believe using hypnosis can be abusive, but you don’t know what it is?

I didnt insinuate that anyone lacked the bandwidth to understand mind control techniques.  At least I dont think I did.

Speaking to Heretik I stated:

..... you may lack the bandwidth to understand and follow along in Awakes and my conversation.

Why did you cut your own single sentence quote short? This is what you really said.

I think that it is possible it is because you may lack the bandwidth to understand and follow along in Awakes and my conversation.  

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[Gonzotherapy]

So enough of the hot air Whooter, show us a fact. Just one.

10 years ago isnt that far off, Gonzo.  I presented a study which was conducted surveying 1,000 graduates and their parents covering various areas of many programs.  The results showed that the programs were up to 85% successful.  

There was a guy who spent 16 months in a program following a peer group, had full access and then wrote a book on it.  His description doesnt even compare to some of the stories were read bout here from 20 30 years ago.

Also if you take a look at the personal accounts of people in programs 20 or 30 years ago they describe the kids being held in these places with no predetermined time when they would get out.  If the kids ran away or broke the rules of the program they were still held there or brought back.  Kids would get almost no education and very few moved onto college.  Its much different today.



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I'm sorry, I thought I clearly stated for you to show some PROOF to back up your ridiculous claims. I know it is pointless to ask since you have none, but thanks for playing.

[Whooter]

I'm sorry, I thought I clearly stated for you to show some PROOF to back up your ridiculous claims. I know it is pointless to ask since you have none, but thanks for playing.

Hey, Gonzo, be nice.

Here are a couple of links for you:

1)  This was a study conducted surveying 1,000 parents and graduates of a few programs.  The study was overseen by WIRB (The Western Institutional Review Board) and they also approved the study.  The results were presented at the Annual meeting of the APA American Psychological Association.

Link

2)  There was a writer who spent 14 months (I thought it was 16 months) inside a program and then wrote a book about his findings

Link

A Pulitzer Prize-winning writer untangles the mysteries of the
teenage mind as he witnesses troubled kids transformed by fourteen
months at a school that offers therapy for adolescents in
crisis.
Millions of parents struggle to grasp what goes on in their kids' heads,
on their computers, and among their friends. As an education correspondent
for U.S. News & World Report, David L. Marcus wrestled with similar
questions while reporting on the welter of pressures American teenagers
now face – a resurgent drug culture, proliferating temptations and threats
on-line, skyrocketing suicide rates (three times higher than in the
1960s).
To find answers, Marcus gained unfettered access to students, staff,
and parents at the Academy at Swift River in the hills of western
Massachusetts. The kids at Swift River had already ventured down a
number of perilous paths all parents fear their own children might
take – drug use, violence, theft, internet addictions, eating disorders,
promiscuity. Known for combining intensive academics, a wilderness
program and group therapy, the school helps troubled teenagers emotional
health.



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[RobertBruce]

Your experience is limited to one program and there are hundreds of different models and programs out there.

Which is still one up on your experiences as you have never been in a program. Our testimony will forever weight more than yours Whooter. Why do you keep missing this?

[Anne Bonney]

Shady, I dont think anyone is going to buy into the (fast food/ drive through) 30 day brainwashing theory.

You really should do some research on brainwashing.  It doesn't take long at all.  Especially is such an isolated environment.

 Your experience is limited to one program and there are hundreds of different models and programs out there.

You keep saying that, but most of the use the same "treatment" models.

If you look into what is required to brainwash someone and the definition of a cult you will quickly realize that if a child is competing in sports with local highschools, going to school all day, preparing for their SAT's, visiting colleges, writing to friends and family, going into town on weekends etc. that this environment cannot support brainwashing or fit the definition of a cult.  The conditions dont exist for these theories to take hold, Shady.

And you don't get to do any of those things in programs.

It appears that you are trying to compare your experience to programs today and various other models.  Not all programs are the same.

Not exactly the same, but most use the same techniques.  I didn't think anything could be worse than Straight then I started reading about Tranquility Bay, WWASPS etc.

You come across as uniformed.

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:


Yeah, it's HER that's uninformed.  The one who has been on the inside.  You, who've never been exposed to this kind of "treatment" are the expert.   :twofinger:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Hey, I'm not a her.  And chicks dig a man in a uniform.

Where's the embarrassed, red faced emoticon when I need it.  I'm so sorry!    


And I definitely dig a man in uniform!

[Whooter]

Hey, I'm not a her.  And chicks dig a man in a uniform.

Where's the embarrassed, red faced emoticon when I need it.  I'm so sorry!    


And I definitely dig a man in uniform!

Dont feel embarrassed,  I thought it was funny,  I sometimes do the same thing.



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