Kids in Program Credible?

[RobertBruce]

Even a child who rarely lied may be motivated to do so once they are exposed to the hard work of waking up every day early, making their beds, doing chores going to school, clearing the table after meals, studying etc. I could see a few phones calls going out to mom and dad saying they were being tortured and wanting to come home.

Do you have any examples of a kid claiming the above mentioned tasks were abusive or torture?

[Whooter]

You are wrong, terribly wrong...You  have no idea how offending and cruel your words are.  

I dont think my words are offending or cruel.  Calling someone a liar, an industry shill, program parent who doesnt care about kids, child rapist etc.  those words may be considered cruel.  I am pointing out some inconsistencies in stories here that may be of interest to people.

If you have read and listened to survivor stories from the holocaust you would know that even in the midst of the war and retelling of the horrors the Jews experienced Jews would recount a neighbor here who helped them or a young Nazi solder who was kind to their children and helped them get food.  Stories of bonding with those around them.  Most did not try to omit pieces of the story because it may break the pattern of horror or reveal that not all Germans were evil.  I found their ability to be honest and open in all aspects of their story uplifting.



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[Shadyacres]

You are wrong, terribly wrong...You  have no idea how offending and cruel your words are.  

I dont think my words are offending or cruel.  Calling someone a liar, an industry shill, program parent who doesnt care about kids, child rapist etc.  those words may be considered cruel.  I am pointing out some inconsistencies in stories here that may be of interest to people.

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No, you're not.  You are CLAIMING to point out "inconsistencies" in the stories of people who have been abused as children.  Because you just made up some garbage about "stories have to be balanced or else they aren't believable".  You have been told repeatedly how cruel and hurtful your opinions are here.  It is frighteningly obvious what manner of person you must be and what line of work you are most likely in.  The program I was in didn't consider itself "offending or cruel" either.  It was.

[Whooter]

You are wrong, terribly wrong...You  have no idea how offending and cruel your words are.  

I dont think my words are offending or cruel.  Calling someone a liar, an industry shill, program parent who doesnt care about kids, child rapist etc.  those words may be considered cruel.  I am pointing out some inconsistencies in stories here that may be of interest to people.

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No, you're not.  You are CLAIMING to point out "inconsistencies" in the stories of people who have been abused as children.  Because you just made up some garbage about "stories have to be balanced or else they aren't believable".  You have been told repeatedly how cruel and hurtful your opinions are here.  It is frighteningly obvious what manner of person you must be and what line of work you are most likely in.  The program I was in didn't consider itself "offending or cruel" either.  It was.

The topic is the credibility of kids in programs, I didnt start this thread.  I am pointing out that there is an element missing and am curious as to why, thats all.  Why do you see me as being cruel and hurtful but never spoke out about others here on fornits being cruel to families like the Reubens?  We had Robert Bruce bragging about writing emails to survivors making fun of the fact that his brother committed suicide and no one besides Che spoke up about it.  We had Dysfunction junction posting pictures of the survivors family members and laughing, joking about a survivors mother dying before her other son committed suicide.  Shady, you will never convince anyone (especially myself) here on fornits  that you care about people being cruel or hurtful in general.  You are just saying this to me because you  dont like my opinions or the discussion we are having.  People on fornits tolerate cruel in spades.  We had a mother come on to fornits to inquire about her son and all she got were posters pretending they knew him and telling her he performs oral sex on other kids in the program.  No one helped this woman but when I stepped forward people got pissed because I pretended to have a son in the same program to ease her pain a little.  But the regulars were more pissed at me for caring about her than the scum who were being cruel to her...  lol.  Its a sick group of people, Shady.

The people, like yourself, who stand on the sidelines and tolerate this with your silence are just as bad as the ones being cruel.



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[maruska]

Compare this to fornits stories which are striped of anything positive.  Any first time reader will quickly realize there is an agenda to paint the industry as negative.  You dont realize it because you have been here so long ans have learned to accept the negativity.

Sometimes "negativity" as you paint it, is simply the unvarnished truth.  When an organization exists that mistreats kids for profit (or misplaced ideology) there is often very little that's positive.  Hey.  At the program I was in I had one or two positive experiences (mostly with learning to build furniture -- which the program sold at a profit -- for some bizarre reason I liked it), but the rest of it was pretty much universally negative.  One good thing does not outweigh all the bad and when you're giving an overall evaluation of a program it's very easy to forget to mention it.  It's simply not relevant.

Psy, this is one of those topics that just raises a red flag for me (and I am sure many other readers who dont post), just like the kidnapping topic. I am sure I will come across as insensitive in trying to express my thoughts on this topic.   I have read stories from regulars here that are stripped bare of anything positive from that time period.  If you read stories from Shaggy and a few others they will tell you honestly that the place was abusive but maybe the food was okay or they had a couple of good staff members or met a really good friend or learned how to paint etc.  These things happen naturally in life.  Even Holocaust survivors who suffered one of the greatest losses retell their stories with recounts of friendships made, guards who were kind to the children etc.

Reading stories that paint the entire experience negative from the color of the walls to every staff member just losses all credibility in my opinion and shows that there is an obvious agenda present, so we, as readers, are left not knowing what to believe within that account except the kid is angry and probably abused, but the details are not credible.
I have pointed out posts which show a high level of credibility which outlined the abuse that occurred along with the positive aspects of the program.  Why are people afraid to say they met a good friend or enjoyed pizza when it was served or a helpful staff member?  Why try to lay the negative paint on so thick that their story losses credibility?  Do survivors just not see this in each others stories?  



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Even Holocaust survivors who suffered one of the greatest losses retell their stories with recounts of friendships made, guards who were kind to the children etc.



Are you serious?  :flame:

here - there you have  it...this sentence says a lot about you ...guards who were kind to their children?!?  good times , right?!? I am so sure the mother was so happy that a guard smiled at her child - before he killed the same child in front of her....
Do you know how many children were killed in the concetration camps? Do you know how? Do you know what torture do they had to endure? Ever heard about Dr.Mengele? Please, get off fornits and learn, read, educate yourself.
you may start here :
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/
 
Only a really twisted mind could use such an example. I wonder why did you use it in the first place?

[Whooter]

here - there you have  it...this sentence says a lot about you ...guards who were kind to their children?!?  good times , right?!? I am so sure the mother was so happy that a guard smiled at her child - before he killed the same child in front of her....
Do you know how many children were killed in the concetration camps? Do you know how? Do you know what torture do they had to endure? Ever heard about Dr.Mengele? Please, get off fornits and learn, read, educate yourself.
you may start here :
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/
 
Only a really twisted mind could use such an example. I wonder why did you use it in the first place?

You stated earlier that you visited many holocaust sites in highschool but you were probably too busy giggling with your friends to learn anything.  You should be mad at yourself.

I find it odd, and fascinating at the same time, that you are mad at me because of what happened in Germany and the way people chose to tell their stories.  Why is that?  Why do you close your mind so much and pretend that I think a mother enjoyed watching her children get killed describing it as good times?  I think you have formed this opinion of holocaust survivors based on very little information.  You admitted earlier that you have closed yourself off to learning any more about this time period when I mentioned the Museum in DC.

Why does it bother you so much that some holocaust survivors retell their stories with recounts of friendships made? Or guards who were kind to their children? Do you think you would withhold these points if you were in this person position?  Why does it make you so angry?  Your reaction to these stories is very telling in my opinion.  If you did a little less preaching and listened to some of these survivors stories you would see what I mean.  You think you know a lot about the Holocaust, Matuska, but if you ever get the opportunity to visit the Holocaust museum give yourself a chance to learn a little more about what transpired during that time period.  It is very moving to hear the individual recounts and stories.  You and I can view the holocaust differently but listening to the stories retold by survivors themselves gives you a new perspective before lashing out at people out of ignorance.



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[RobertBruce]

Calling someone a liar, an industry shill, program parent who doesnt care about kids, child rapist etc. those words may be considered cruel

Are they still considered cruel if they're true? I look at them as simply stating facts.

[Samara]

What a joke, Whooter.  Fornits doesn't exist because kids had to get up early, learn, and do chores.  The learning part is baloney because we didn't have real school - it was a sham. But we did have chores galore - laborious, exhaustive chores. And trust me, you'd get no complaints from me. For me, chores meant that at that moment, I was saved from brutal and abusive raps and psychodrama. I'd rather be worked to the bone than have my head fucked with. Or anyone's. Because it was just as painful to watch the daily, demeaning onslaught other people had to endure.

[Whooter]

What a joke, Whooter.  Fornits doesn't exist because kids had to get up early, learn, and do chores.  The learning part is baloney because we didn't have real school - it was a sham. But we did have chores galore - laborious, exhaustive chores. And trust me, you'd get no complaints from me. For me, chores meant that at that moment, I was saved from brutal and abusive raps and psychodrama. I'd rather be worked to the bone than have my head fucked with. Or anyone's. Because it was just as painful to watch the daily, demeaning onslaught other people had to endure.

That was your experience, Samara, but many teenagers would rather be in study hall or outside in the pool or walking the skiing trails then to do chores of any kind.  You have to understand that many of these kids came from households where they were not required to work, make their bed, do chores etc. so this was not an easy step for them.  Initially you would hear the kids complaining that the program should hire maids with all the money they were making lol.  But eventually they catch on to the process of working together.

If you have ever read about kids who were in the seed or straight you would see that they had an awful time of it, rotted food, no competitive sports or trips to town for date night, abuse.  They barely got enough education to get them into a community college.

Once the kids get use to the routine of doing their chores, doing a good job it actually helps their self esteem (vs sitting around watching a maid clean your room. Lol).  I cant imagine having to be in a program which separates families and damages self esteem.



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[Samara]

I went to a rich kid TBS. I can assure you that the chores do not come to mind when reminiscing about the abusive aspects of the program.  

Not that anyone would make the mistake of complaining more than once.

[Whooter]

I went to a rich kid TBS. I can assure you that the chores do not come to mind when reminiscing about the abusive aspects of the program.  

Not that anyone would make the mistake of complaining more than once.

Our kids complained on our first visit.  We met up with all the other parents, sat in a circle and went over what had transpired over the first month or so on campus.  Then we broke up into groups of 4 or 6 and spoke with the counselors along with the kids and when asked what the toughest part was we heard:
"Getting up at 7:00 am".... "Being away from friends"....."Being away from home"......."Cleaning our rooms"..."School!".. "cleaning the hallways"... "You think they could afford to hire help with all the money you parents spend here"  lol.  No one really complained about the food too much because it was pretty good, we ate with the other kids while we were there.  There was one kid who never had to do homework apparently, because he thought the worst part was being forced to finish his homework assignment each night.  My daughter didn't like getting up early.



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[Inculcated]

I went to a rich kid TBS. I can assure you that the chores do not come to mind when reminiscing about the abusive aspects of the program.  

Not that anyone would make the mistake of complaining more than once.

Our kids complained on our first visit.  We met up with all the other parents, sat in a circle and went over what had transpired over the first month or so on campus.  Then we broke up into groups of 4 or 6 and spoke with the counselors along with the kids and when asked what the toughest part was we heard:
"Getting up at 7:00 am".... "Cleaning our rooms"..."School!".. "cleaning the hallways"... "You think they could afford to hire help with all the money you parents spend here"  lol.  No one really complained about the food too much because it was pretty good, we ate with the other kids while we were there.  There was one kid who never had to do homework apparently, because he thought the worst part was being forced to finish his homework assignment each night.  My daughter didn't like getting up early.

"Our kids" How many did you send to programs whooter?

[Whooter]

I went to a rich kid TBS. I can assure you that the chores do not come to mind when reminiscing about the abusive aspects of the program.  

Not that anyone would make the mistake of complaining more than once.

Our kids complained on our first visit.  We met up with all the other parents, sat in a circle and went over what had transpired over the first month or so on campus.  Then we broke up into groups of 4 or 6 and spoke with the counselors along with the kids and when asked what the toughest part was we heard:
"Getting up at 7:00 am".... "Cleaning our rooms"..."School!".. "cleaning the hallways"... "You think they could afford to hire help with all the money you parents spend here"  lol.  No one really complained about the food too much because it was pretty good, we ate with the other kids while we were there.  There was one kid who never had to do homework apparently, because he thought the worst part was being forced to finish his homework assignment each night.  My daughter didn't like getting up early.

"Our kids" How many did you send to programs whooter?

By "Our kids" I am referring to the kids in our peer group.  In the program my daughter went to they grouped the kids together into groups of 10 or 12 and called them a peer group and they moved through the process together and graduated together.  It was a nice way of doing it.  After a few months we (the other parents and ourselves) would refer to the kids as our kids.  I had my daughter there at the time.



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[Inculcated]

Your story has changed so much that I don't find even your secondhand accounts credible.

[Whooter]

Your story has changed so much that I don't find even your secondhand accounts credible.

Where has my story changed?  



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