Do Survivors Lie: Part III (The Apology)

[Anne Bonney]

You have no experience in programs, so quit pretending you know a goddamned thing about them.

I actually have more experience than you do Anne and know more about todays programs.  Your information is from 30 years

It's from both 30 years ago and recently.  You know NOTHING about what I know of programs today and even less of programs themselves, as you've never been inside one.

[Whooter]

This website does not represent the industry in any way, shape or form.  It's a fucking message board for survivors to talk about their experiences.  It just happened to catch on and programs can't have their secrets being discovered so they came over to do damage control.  What they were 'exposed' to here (what you refer to as attacks) is a fraction and I mean a tiny sliver of a fraction of what kids are exposed to in programs every single day.  They couldn't take it so they left.  The kids, unfortunately, can't just leave. Then you show up and because of your marketing experience and, well.....because you're kind of a dick, you've been able to handle these "attacks"   and stuck around to protect your interests.

You have it backwards, Anne.  I think we can both agree that I sustain much more attacks on a daily bases here on fornits than anyone does (day after day) and I do not complain very much.  

But look what happens when I attack back! Ha,Ha,Ha,  We see crying all over the forum of how I come here to fornits and pick on poor abuse survivors.

The double standard shows its head fairly often here.



...

[shaggys]

Whooter just because you have a cool avatar doesn't give you the right to come here and badger program survivors like this. You have been particularly vicious lately. Why is that? I can only guess that your enrollment numbers at the programs are down and you have alot of $ at stake. Just a guess. If you keep this up i might be forced to pirate your avatar. It just aint right that you should have the freshest one. Just sayin.

[Shadyacres]

This website does not represent the industry in any way, shape or form.  It's a fucking message board for survivors to talk about their experiences.  It just happened to catch on and programs can't have their secrets being discovered so they came over to do damage control.  What they were 'exposed' to here (what you refer to as attacks) is a fraction and I mean a tiny sliver of a fraction of what kids are exposed to in programs every single day.  They couldn't take it so they left.  The kids, unfortunately, can't just leave. Then you show up and because of your marketing experience and, well.....because you're kind of a dick, you've been able to handle these "attacks"   and stuck around to protect your interests.

You have it backwards, Anne.  I think we can both agree that I sustain much more attacks on a daily bases here on fornits than anyone does (day after day) and I do not complain very much.  

Can you read?  She said that any "attacks" you sustain here are NOTHING compared to what the kids go through in these "schools" or programs.

But look what happens when I attack back! Ha,Ha,Ha,  We see crying all over the forum of how I come here to fornits and pick on poor abuse survivors.

Are those the "poor abuse survivors" you just told us you care so much about?  Your compassion is underwhelming.

The double standard shows its head fairly often here.

There is no double standard.  You have never been in one of these places and therefore have no right to argue with any of us.  You are an apologist for criminals, and probably a criminal yourself.  You obviously do not mind the treatment you receive here, you might even like it.  Seek help.

...

:twofinger: Get a Life Whooter!  :twofinger:

[Whooter]

Are those the "poor abuse survivors" you just told us you care so much about?  Your compassion is underwhelming.

No, I do care deeply about kids who have been abused.  I dont care too much for people who attack me and fabricate lies about me... (smile)

There is no double standard.  You have never been in one of these places and therefore have no right to argue with any of us.  You are an apologist for criminals, and probably a criminal yourself.  You obviously do not mind the treatment you receive here, you might even like it.  Seek help.

See, Shady, the double standard is that many here feel they can talk about program parents and what their motives are and how they feel (When in fact they never had an at risk child that was placed in a program).  There are those here who claim to know all about the industry and the owners (When none of them have ever owned a program  or ran one)......  Many criticize EdCons when they have never been in their shoes.  The double standard is so ingrained in people like you that you cannot even see it.

So why shouldnt I be able to talk about what it is like to be in a program and share my opinions?



...

[Shadyacres]

So why shouldnt I be able to talk about what it is like to be in a program and share my opinions?

...

Because your opinions are not just invalid, they are actually offensive and insulting to nearly everyone else here.  What were Hitler's motives?  How did he feel?  Who cares?  He was an evil man who committed unspeakable atrocities against the entire human race, just like your buddies.  We do not have to be evil dictators to pass judgement on him and we don't need to be child abusing criminals to pass judgement on program apologists like you.

[heretik]

You have no experience in programs, so quit pretending you know a goddamned thing about them.

I actually have more experience than you do Anne and know more about todays programs.  Your information is from 30 years ago and just does not apply here.  Its a great history lesson but not very helpful to parents looking for facts on todays industry.

...

OOOOOOoooooooK. So you have made your point. You know more about today's programs. Good, really good. What does this knowledge you have about current programs doing to help us. Since this web site is dedicated to helping troubled victims of programs how is all your intellectual prowess in the TTI field helping the victims here. Now I know, you know there are victims because you have acknowledged that there are abusive programs now and before.

Whooter, this site is all about helping one another. For me it has been reading the stories, experiences and the endless quoted articles on abuse that went on in programs and how to recognize the PTSD-Symptoms.
 
I'll tell you, you can be a asshole and I don't know why. Everyone and I mean everyone has asked you to stop, that what you are doing is offending them but you won't, you press on.
 
Whooter it is psychologically impossible for you to recognize and assimilate what survivors are relating to here, any attempt will be consider suspect to being disingenuous. Why?  Because we inherently know if you have not endured the torment 24/7 and been terminally scarred, anything you say in defense of programs hurts beyond description.

I just can not believe you can't see this, I believe you can but you make a decision to blink and turn your head.

Whooter, I know you are a spiritual man from your posts. So I know, you know somewhere inside of you, what you are doing here is wrong, very wrong.

Think Whooter......

[Whooter]

OOOOOOoooooooK. So you have made your point. You know more about today's programs. Good, really good. What does this knowledge you have about current programs doing to help us. Since this web site is dedicated to helping troubled victims of programs how is all your intellectual prowess in the TTI field helping the victims here. Now I know, you know there are victims because you have acknowledged that there are abusive programs now and before.

People here are not being honest, Heretik.  If you have spent time outside of fornits and met graduates of these programs you would know that there are many kids that benefit from the industry.  If this  site was truly dedicated to talking about the industry and the survivors why does everyone lie to each other.  Why hide the information which shows the positive side of the industry?  Why are the studies and books ignored or stamped marketing or propaganda that don’t show the programs dark side?  Why don’t they accepts all survivors, those who were abused as well as those who were not?

Whooter, this site is all about helping one another. For me it has been reading the stories, experiences and the endless quoted articles on abuse that went on in programs and how to recognize the PTSD-Symptoms.

For me it has been recognizing that there are programs which abuse kids and have models which are inherently abusive by design.

I'll tell you, you can be a asshole and I don't know why. Everyone and I mean everyone has asked you to stop, that what you are doing is offending them but you won't, you press on.

I have also asked people to stop offending me.  I think if you have read here enough you will see that I tend to stave off attacks more than I attack.

Whooter it is psychologically impossible for you to recognize and assimilate what survivors are relating to here, any attempt will be consider suspect to being disingenuous. Why? Because we inherently know if you have not endured the torment 24/7 and been terminally scarred, anything you say in defense of programs hurts beyond description.

I just can not believe you can't see this, I believe you can but you make a decision to blink and turn your head.

Whooter, I know you are a spiritual man from your posts. So I know, you know somewhere inside of you, what you are doing here is wrong, very wrong.

Think Whooter......

Why should it hurt people if I defend programs?  I don’t defend all programs, but I defend the generalization that they are all the same or all abusive.  Why would you want to defend mis information from being sent out?  Is it fair to the survivors who did well to give the industry a bad name?  Dismissing a success story as brainwashing is no better than dismissing a abuse story as embellishing or lying.
If people want to discuss their stories from the days of straight that is fine, there is a forum for that and I don’t post there.  But even the novice would agree that trying to compare the programs of 30 years ago to todays programs isn’t accurate.
Open your eyes Heretik, watch the reaction of the regulars when information comes in here which shows anything positive about the industry whether it be a survivors story or a recent study or survey.  Readers who come to fornits are getting short changed in the information department and I dont think that is right.



...

[Shadyacres]

Why should it hurt people if I defend programs?  I don’t defend all programs, but I defend the generalization that they are all the same or all abusive.  Why would you want to defend mis information from being sent out?  Is it fair to the survivors who did well to give the industry a bad name?  Dismissing a success story as brainwashing is no better than dismissing a abuse story as embellishing or lying.

Wrong.  We have all been the victims of this abusive brainwashing process.  You have not.  

If people want to discuss their stories from the days of straight that is fine, there is a forum for that and I don’t post there.  But even the novice would agree that trying to compare the programs of 30 years ago to todays programs isn’t accurate.

ONLY a novice would think that 30 years MUST have improved things in these snake pits.

Open your eyes Heretik, watch the reaction of the regulars when information comes in here which shows anything positive about the industry whether it be a survivors story or a recent study or survey.  Readers who come to fornits are getting short changed in the information department and I dont think that is right.

...

Bullshit.  This isn't Wikipedia.  Anyone coming to this forum for information is looking for OUR point of view.  Not the point of view of program apologists like you.  That is what the DFAF website, and the many others like it, are for.

[Whooter]

Wrong.  We have all been the victims of this abusive brainwashing process.  You have not.  

I dont believe this.  Not all programs are the same, see you are spreading mis information as we speak, Shady.  Do you see why I am needed here?

ONLY a novice would think that 30 years MUST have improved things in these snake pits.

I think we agree here.  I dont assume things automatically improve some things get worse.  But we all know that things can and do change over 30 years.  If you had 2 people in front of you one that had current knowledge and another who had knowledge from 30 years ago which would you choose?

Bullshit.  This isn't Wikipedia.  Anyone coming to this forum for information is looking for OUR point of view.  Not the point of view of program apologists like you.  That is what the DFAF website, and the many others like it, are for.

Actually people are looking for accurate information.



...

[Shadyacres]

Wrong.  We have all been the victims of this abusive brainwashing process.  You have not.  

I dont believe this.  Not all programs are the same, see you are spreading mis information as we speak, Shady.  Do you see why I am needed here?

ONLY a novice would think that 30 years MUST have improved things in these snake pits.

I think we agree here.  I dont assume things automatically improve some things get worse.  But we all know that things can and do change over 30 years.  If you had 2 people in front of you one that had current knowledge and another who had knowledge from 30 years ago which would you choose?

Bullshit.  This isn't Wikipedia.  Anyone coming to this forum for information is looking for OUR point of view.  Not the point of view of program apologists like you.  That is what the DFAF website, and the many others like it, are for.

Actually people are looking for accurate information.

...

And you ride in on a white horse to correct all of our inaccuracies!  Whooter to the rescue!

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[Gonzotherapy]

Actually people are looking for accurate information.



...

In my short amount of time here I have had the chance to read many of your posts. I have seen you lie about people, myself included, and as of yet I have never seen you provide any links to any real information to back up your claims. So exactly who are you to discern what is and what is not accurate?

[Whooter]

Actually people are looking for accurate information.



...

In my short amount of time here I have had the chance to read many of your posts. I have seen you lie about people, myself included, and as of yet I have never seen you provide any links to any real information to back up your claims. So exactly who are you to discern what is and what is not accurate?

I have people lie about me also, call me an industry person, say I make money off the industry and tell people that my name is John Reuben.  So lying seems to be a integral part of fornits, Gonzotherapy.  You have not seen any of my links because you were not here then.  I never knew you when you attended a CEDU school, but that doesnt mean you didnt go there.

If someone says that all programs brainwash kids then I know this to be inaccurate information.  If they say all kids were abused at a program I know this to be false also.  I know this because I have seen kids who did well.

Imagine for a minute that someone said "Not one child has ever been abused in a program".  Its such a bold statement that we know the poster has no knowledge to base this on, so we can conclude the information is highly likely to be inaccurate or fabricated.



...

[Gonzotherapy]

I have people lie about me also, call me an industry person, say I make money off the industry and tell people that my name is John Reuben.  So lying seems to be a integral part of fornits, Gonzotherapy.  You have not seen any of my links because you were not here then.  I never knew you when you attended a CEDU school, but that doesnt mean you didnt go there.

If someone says that all programs brainwash kids then I know this to be inaccurate information.  If they say all kids were abused at a program I know this to be false also.  I know this because I have seen kids who did well.

Imagine for a minute that someone said "Not one child has ever been abused in a program".  Its such a bold statement that we know the poster has no knowledge to base this on, so we can conclude the information is highly likely to be inaccurate or fabricated.



...

From my limited experience I have seen you blatantly lie and fabricate information to discredit anti-program people. Now, what would be your motivation? I mean seriously, you are here every day, all day. Either you are wealthy and extremely bored and and a little fucked in the head if this is how you choose to entertain yourself. Or you have a job that requires little or none of your attention. Or option three which makes the most sense, this is your job.

Regardless, I have argued many points with you. I provide links to verify my info, you have never provided a link with any sort of accurate information. At least not that I have seen. And I might add, if this is your job and I was your boss, I would fire your dumb ass. Really, you make yourself look way more mentally challenged than anyone else possibly could. :ftard:

Since I am, of course, on the opposite side of your arguments (and to be honest I hesitate even to grace them with that level of achievement), KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!  :tup:

[Whooter]

From my limited experience I have seen you blatantly lie and fabricate information to discredit anti-program people. Now, what would be your motivation?

You have also seen many people fabricate and lie about me.  So my motivation may be to let them see what it is like to be lied about maybe? lol  People have a free reign here to say whatever they like about me without providing any proof or a link.  But if I say that you never attended a program and are lying then all of a sudden people are looking for a link of some sort.  Interesting how that works isnt it?

Regardless, I have argued many points with you. I provide links to verify my info, you have never provided a link with any sort of accurate information. At least not that I have seen.

I typically provide links ad nuaseum sometimes, Gonz, especially if it is a study that we are discussing.  I have had people plead with me to stop linking to the study or source because they are tired of reading it or talking about it.

 

And I might add, if this is your job and I was your boss, I would fire your dumb ass. Really, you make yourself look way more mentally challenged than anyone else possibly could. :ftard:

Exactly, It would be great to earn money this way.  But really who would pay me to do this?  Its funny that you mention it because many people here think I get paid to do this.  Now who is mentally challenged?  lol  Do you see what I mean?

Since I am, of course, on the opposite side of your arguments (and to be honest I hesitate even to grace them with that level of achievement), KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!  :tup:

Thanks, Gonzotherapy, and try to keep the information accurate on your end.  Stay away from the Gulag, kidnapping dialog to keep your stories credible.  You have been fairly good so far.



...