Do Survivors Lie: Part III (The Apology)

[Whooter]

No, you did; Whooter wrote:" But do you really expect to make readers believe that survivors are the only segment of society which do not contain members who lie?"

But I didn’t say “Survivors lie about being abused”

Well, yes, but the part you quoted was his opinion, not a factual account of events.

I went back and read BillS’s story and he never stated it was just his opinion.  He stated what he saw.

We know this because our side does not use brainwashing techniques that have been condemned by the U.N., among other reasons.

And there is no indication that BillS was brainwashed when he wrote that.  You could be brainwashed writing all these negative posts and not even know it.   We could all be brainwashed and just  be sitting around here invalidating each others’ stories.

I am not questioning him, exactly, I am questioning his current mental health. I already know about yours.

How about the mental health of survivors who claim to have been kidnapped and taken to a gulag and tortured and brainwashed.  Would this poster be in a better frame of mental health then say BillS would be?  BillS’s account is clearly articulated and balanced with negative aspects in his story.  If he were brainwashed by Aspen he would have written a raving review with no downside.  



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[Anne Bonney]

And your comment to Psy about 'damage control'.......holy shit....talk about pot/kettle.

Exactly.  How many times have I heard you say I was doing “Damage Control”?  Now that the shoe is on the other foot all of a sudden the term doesn’t apply?  
I enjoy watching the double standard play out here on fornits sometimes, Anne.  I added it for Grins.

I'm sure you did.  I'm sure you get a big kick out of what you do to us here.  How sad and pathetic that you get enjoyment out of tormenting people who were abused as children.  

There is a reason Psy is here.....he's a survivor and was responding to your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words and your marketing in general.  The only reason that you have been here for as long as you have and the ONLY reason I can see for your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words is that you're in this for the money (and apparently the "Grins" too.  It's part of what you do....marketing, IMO.  So, no......your "double standard" doesn't apply in this instance.  As usual.

You keep posting that as proof that survivors lie about being abused.

I never said I had proof that survivors lie about being abused.  It was "why do survivors lie".  This lead to the discussion that if they are willing to lie about one thing then how are we to know where the truth ends and the lies begin?
Do you see what I mean?

I see what you're trying to do.  It ain't working.

[Whooter]

You lied about having a son, why should we believe anything you say?  You have been proven to be a liar, unlike most of us here.  If you are willing to lie about one thing then how are we to know where the truth ends and the lies begin?  I think you need to stop being so manipulative and get honest with yourself about your stinkin' thinkin'.
Do you see what I mean?

Well I explained the circumstances surrounding the decision to write the post that I did.  If I am placed in a position where a mother comes to fornits for advice and is subsequently being beat up on fornits and she is being told that her son is gay and performing oral sex on everyone in the program and many other posters are fooling her and logging in under different aliases then yes I think I would step in and do the same thing again.

These are the circumstances in-which I would write a post like I did.  So everyone knows a little bit more about me than I do about them which makes my posts a little bit more credible in an environment where I am not being faced with rescuing a woman in distress.

If we were faced with another woman being beat up then you could justifiably be concerned that I would lie in that situation again because you have a past behavior pattern which would match present events and preclude a similar behavior from me.  But outside of those conditions there is no reason to believe I would be lying.



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[Shadyacres]

No, you did; Whooter wrote:" But do you really expect to make readers believe that survivors are the only segment of society which do not contain members who lie?"

But I didn’t say “Survivors lie about being abused”

Who cares what you said?  You are a proven liar.

Well, yes, but the part you quoted was his opinion, not a factual account of events.

I went back and read BillS’s story and he never stated it was just his opinion.  He stated what he saw.

Really?  And how did he know they were lying?  Is he psychic?

We know this because our side does not use brainwashing techniques that have been condemned by the U.N., among other reasons.

And there is no indication that BillS was brainwashed when he wrote that.  You could be brainwashed writing all these negative posts and not even know it.   We could all be brainwashed and just  be sitting around here invalidating each others’ stories.

And who would have done this, and for what reason?  We all know that programs have significant financial motivation to brainwash kids into believing that they were "saved" by these programs.  What motivation would anyone have to do the opposite?  If you know of somebody paying people to turn people against programs, hook me up, I could always use some extra cash.

I am not questioning him, exactly, I am questioning his current mental health. I already know about yours.

How about the mental health of survivors who claim to have been kidnapped and taken to a gulag and tortured and brainwashed.  Would this poster be in a better frame of mental health then say BillS would be?  BillS’s account is clearly articulated and balanced with negative aspects in his story.  If he were brainwashed by Aspen he would have written a raving review with no downside.  

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No, I don't think he would.  The standard program zombie line is; "Yes, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through, BUT IT WAS WORTH IT because I was so messed up before".  Then, after several years or even decades they change their tune and realize that all that trauma during their formative years was anything but good for them.

[Anne Bonney]

No, you did; Whooter wrote:" But do you really expect to make readers believe that survivors are the only segment of society which do not contain members who lie?"

But I didn’t say “Survivors lie about being abused”

Who cares what you said?  You are a proven liar.

Well, yes, but the part you quoted was his opinion, not a factual account of events.

I went back and read BillS’s story and he never stated it was just his opinion.  He stated what he saw.

Really?  And how did he know they were lying?  Is he psychic?

We know this because our side does not use brainwashing techniques that have been condemned by the U.N., among other reasons.

And there is no indication that BillS was brainwashed when he wrote that.  You could be brainwashed writing all these negative posts and not even know it.   We could all be brainwashed and just  be sitting around here invalidating each others’ stories.

And who would have done this, and for what reason?  We all know that programs have significant financial motivation to brainwash kids into believing that they were "saved" by these programs.  What motivation would anyone have to do the opposite?  If you know of somebody paying people to turn people against programs, hook me up, I could always use some extra cash.

I am not questioning him, exactly, I am questioning his current mental health. I already know about yours.

How about the mental health of survivors who claim to have been kidnapped and taken to a gulag and tortured and brainwashed.  Would this poster be in a better frame of mental health then say BillS would be?  BillS’s account is clearly articulated and balanced with negative aspects in his story.  If he were brainwashed by Aspen he would have written a raving review with no downside.  

...

No, I don't think he would.  The standard program zombie line is; "Yes, it was the hardest thing I have ever been through, BUT IT WAS WORTH IT because I was so messed up before.  Then, after several years or even decades they change their tune and realize that all that trauma during their formative years was anything but good for them.

 :nods:  :tup:

It's true.  That's pretty much what they tell us to say cuz they KNOW that the truth IS coming out.  Not as fast as I'd like it to, but it IS coming...so to mitigate the damage, they tell us/them to say "yeah, it was hard and there were things I didn't agree with but I sure needed it and it saved my life.....I'd be deadinsaneorinjail if not for the program, no matter it's faults."

[Whooter]

There is a reason Psy is here.....he's a survivor and was responding to your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words and your marketing in general.  The only reason that you have been here for as long as you have and the ONLY reason I can see for your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words is that you're in this for the money (and apparently the "Grins" too.  It's part of what you do....marketing, IMO.  So, no......your "double standard" doesn't apply in this instance.  As usual.

since you brought it up again and we are talking about opinions here:
Hmmmm.....and lets see why would you be still here after 30 years, Anne.  If you were truly convinced that the programs screwed up your life you would have gotten past that 25 years ago.  So you must realize that you screwed up, not the program, but that doesnt sit too well with you so you log on day after day here on fornits to in a failed attempt to fool yourself into believing the program was somehow responsible for your placement.  You distanced yourself from your family with your new friends and drug use.  You didnt listen to their concerns about the non stop partying, skipping school and car accidents you were getting into.  Your parents gave you plenty of freedoms, (they didnt over react or jump the gun)  and you flushed it all down the toilet and forced their hand into getting you help.........  30 years later its till someone else's fault and you sit and wait for an apology that will probably never come because it isn't warranted in anyones' mind except your own.  You screwed up when you were young.  You just need to face the facts and quit blaming other people and programs.



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[Whooter]

Who cares what you said? You are a proven liar.

and so are you, Shadyacres.  Why do keep pointing fingers?

Whooter, everybody lies.  What is wrong with you?  I lie myself if people are not listening to me or I am trying to get peoples attention on a topic.  It doesnt mean that I lie about everything.

Link



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[Whooter]

Really?  And how did he know they were lying?  Is he psychic?

You don’t need to be a psychic to know another person is lying.  A kid says he broke his arm and goes to the nurse and then the next day he sees him playing basketball without a cast on.  You don’t need a medical degree to determine if they were lying or not.

And who would have done this, and for what reason? We all know that programs have significant financial motivation to brainwash kids into believing that they were "saved" by these programs. What motivation would anyone have to do the opposite? If you know of somebody paying people to turn people against programs, hook me up, I could always use some extra cash.

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.



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[Shadyacres]

There is a reason Psy is here.....he's a survivor and was responding to your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words and your marketing in general.  The only reason that you have been here for as long as you have and the ONLY reason I can see for your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words is that you're in this for the money (and apparently the "Grins" too.  It's part of what you do....marketing, IMO.  So, no......your "double standard" doesn't apply in this instance.  As usual.

since you brought it up again and we are talking about opinions here:
Hmmmm.....and lets see why would you be still here after 30 years, Anne.  If you were truly convinced that the programs screwed up your life you would have gotten past that 25 years ago.  So you must realize that you screwed up, not the program, but that doesnt sit too well with you so you log on day after day here on fornits to in a failed attempt to fool yourself into believing the program was somehow responsible for your placement.  You distanced yourself from your family with your new friends and drug use.  You didnt listen to their concerns about the non stop partying, skipping school and car accidents you were getting into.  Your parents gave you plenty of freedoms, (they didnt over react or jump the gun)  and you flushed it all down the toilet and forced their hand into getting you help.........  30 years later its till someone else's fault and you sit and wait for an apology that will probably never come because it isn't warranted in anyones' mind except your own.  You screwed up when you were young.  You just need to face the facts and quit blaming other people and programs.

...

Whooter, young people are supposed to make mistakes.  It is called learning.  You make a mistake, you feel the consequences of that mistake and you learn to not do it again.  However, crippling a child psychologically is NOT a reasonable consequence for anything, period.  These programs, and you Whooter, take normal teenage behavior and use it as an excuse to terrorize and demoralize children who are already struggling, usually because their parents have failed them in one way or another.  These places WILL be found to be criminally motivated and criminally operated, the only question is how long will it take?  And what kind of upbringing did you have?  To talk to Anne like that?  YOU HAVE READ HER STORY!  What pit of ignorance and narcissism did you crawl out of?

[Anne Bonney]

There is a reason Psy is here.....he's a survivor and was responding to your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words and your marketing in general.  The only reason that you have been here for as long as you have and the ONLY reason I can see for your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words is that you're in this for the money (and apparently the "Grins" too.  It's part of what you do....marketing, IMO.  So, no......your "double standard" doesn't apply in this instance.  As usual.

since you brought it up again and we are talking about opinions here:
Hmmmm.....and lets see why would you be still here after 30 years, Anne.  If you were truly convinced that the programs screwed up your life you would have gotten past that 25 years ago.

As we've said MULTIPLE times here....sometimes it takes a while for the brainwashing to wear off.  And in my case, I was still surrounded by Straight people and Straight thinking for decades after getting out.

So you must realize that you screwed up, not the program, but that doesnt sit too well with you so you log on day after day here on fornits to in a failed attempt to fool yourself into believing the program was somehow responsible for your placement.

They were directly responsible for my placement, as well as my father.

You distanced yourself from your family with your new friends and drug use.

No I did not.  Where are you even getting this?

You didnt listen to their concerns about the non stop partying, skipping school and car accidents you were getting into.  Your parents gave you plenty of freedoms, (they didnt over react or jump the gun)  and you flushed it all down the toilet and forced their hand into getting you help.........  30 years later its till someone else's fault and you sit and wait for an apology that will probably never come because it isn't warranted in anyones' mind except your own.  You screwed up when you were young.  You just need to face the facts and quit blaming other people and programs.

What. The. Fuck. are you talking about???  None of that is true in the slightest.  This is really low, even for you.


I'm here because I'm a survivor and I found a lot of help here, so I hopefully can pay some of that back in some small way.  The MAIN reason though is because the same bullshit abuse that I went through is still going on today.  There isn't a night I lay my head down on my pillow that I don't think about how there are kids at that very moment who are cold, scared, sick and being abused by the people who are supposed to be helping them.  It's also the main reason I participated in the event this weekend.

[Shadyacres]

Who cares what you said? You are a proven liar.

and so are you, Shadyacres.  Why do keep pointing fingers?

Whooter, everybody lies.  What is wrong with you?  I lie myself if people are not listening to me or I am trying to get peoples attention on a topic.  It doesnt mean that I lie about everything.

Link

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You are pathetic.  Nobody believes that I wrote that.

[Shadyacres]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

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Oh really, then why don't you enlighten us, Swami?

[Anne Bonney]

Shadyacres, if you ever get the time look up brainwashing and you will see what events need to occur to brainwash a person fully.  Behavior modification?  yes.  Brainwashing?  No.

Start reading here Whooter.  You might, might learn something.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

[Ursus]

Who cares what you said? You are a proven liar.

and so are you, Shadyacres.  Why do keep pointing fingers?

Whooter, everybody lies.  What is wrong with you?  I lie myself if people are not listening to me or I am trying to get peoples attention on a topic.  It doesnt mean that I lie about everything.

Link

You are pathetic.  Nobody believes that I wrote that.

Nope, they don't. But if they are new and/or unsure, and they go so far as to clink on the link, they get:

The requested topic does not exist.[/list]

Here we have yer standard version of Whooter's proof, i.e., one that doesn't even exist.  

[Anne Bonney]

There is a reason Psy is here.....he's a survivor and was responding to your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words and your marketing in general.  The only reason that you have been here for as long as you have and the ONLY reason I can see for your endless, useless and baseless analogies, your twisting of our words is that you're in this for the money (and apparently the "Grins" too.  It's part of what you do....marketing, IMO.  So, no......your "double standard" doesn't apply in this instance.  As usual.

since you brought it up again and we are talking about opinions here:
Hmmmm.....and lets see why would you be still here after 30 years, Anne.  If you were truly convinced that the programs screwed up your life you would have gotten past that 25 years ago.  So you must realize that you screwed up, not the program, but that doesnt sit too well with you so you log on day after day here on fornits to in a failed attempt to fool yourself into believing the program was somehow responsible for your placement.  You distanced yourself from your family with your new friends and drug use.  You didnt listen to their concerns about the non stop partying, skipping school and car accidents you were getting into.  Your parents gave you plenty of freedoms, (they didnt over react or jump the gun)  and you flushed it all down the toilet and forced their hand into getting you help.........  30 years later its till someone else's fault and you sit and wait for an apology that will probably never come because it isn't warranted in anyones' mind except your own.  You screwed up when you were young.  You just need to face the facts and quit blaming other people and programs.

...

Whooter, young people are supposed to make mistakes.  It is called learning.  You make a mistake, you feel the consequences of that mistake and you learn to not do it again.  However, crippling a child psychologically is NOT a reasonable consequence for anything, period.  These programs, and you Whooter, take normal teenage behavior and use it as an excuse to terrorize and demoralize children who are already struggling, usually because their parents have failed them in one way or another.  These places WILL be found to be criminally motivated and criminally operated, the only question is how long will it take?  And what kind of upbringing did you have?  To talk to Anne like that?  YOU HAVE READ HER STORY!  What pit of ignorance and narcissism did you crawl out of?

That's what programs and their supporters do.  Pathologize adolescence.  All you really have to do to see that is read any of those insipid "questionnaires" on their websites.  EVERY kid is moody, EVERY kid screws up occasionally, EVERY kid does things that scare their parents, EVERY kid steps out of line now and again so according to their thinking, damn near EVERY kid needs to be in a program.  If parents would just pay attention and do their fucking jobs, they could take care of whatever issues the kid is having.  But they don't.  They look around for someone to tell them that they have "THE answer".  No one does.  There is no "THE answer".  There is only parenting.  Love your children, embrace their differences from you, quit trying to make them into what YOU want them to be and help them to become what THEY want to be, even if it doesn't jibe with your vision for them.