Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies

[Anne Bonney]

Who's to say she wouldn't have if left to her own learning?

We will never know.  The same as your path if you never went to straight.

But at least we have those comparisons of my peers and the predictions that Straight gave of myself and those peers that never did come true.

What was she doing that was so out of line that you felt it necessary to send her away?  

Other than what I mentioned above I dont want to go into specifics on her issues.

Why on earth not?  It's not like you have to give her name, fercrissakes.  I

I dont believe she was reprogrammed or brainwashed.  LGAT's can be extremely intense or fairly benign.  They are used all over the country by some of out largest corporations.  Do I believe LGAT's can be hurtful?  yes.  But they can be helpful also is used correctly.  A few pain killers can ease the pain, too many can kill you.  You just need to moderate and apply it properly.

Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking".  It's apples and oranges and you know it.  There's nothing helpful about humiliating and degrading a child while they're still in their developmental years.

I agree we will never know, none of us will never know what would happen if we took a different path.  All I can say is I knew her and saw what the program had done for her.  The turn around would never have occurred if left to her own path.

So, you're willing to say it 'saved her life', but not what it 'saved' her from?

[Whooter]

Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it. There's nothing helpful about humiliating and degrading a child while they're still in their developmental years.

I have spoken to people who attended LGATs for work and they did not humiliate or scream in their faces.  It was intense but more towards a work shop than it was brainwashing.

So, you're willing to say it 'saved her life', but not what it 'saved' her from?

I don’t know if she would have died without it but it put her on a better healthier path.  It turned her around, taught her to communicate, built up her self esteem and helped her to believe in herself again and take control of her own life.



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[Whooter]

Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.

Anne, this is a valid analogy.  My point being if you take a couple of pain killers they can help you.  But they can also be dangerous if misused.  The same applies to LGATs.(They can be helpful or dangerous)  They can be designed to be helpful and benign or they can be extremely intense and lengthy and abusive.
This was my point.  I wasn’t trying to imply that pain killers can scream at you or humiliate you.  They are just pills.  Are you serious that you cannot see the analogy and thought I was saying that pills scream at people or are you just giving me a hard time?



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[Anne Bonney]

Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.

Anne, this is a valid analogy.

I know where you were trying to go with it, but no.....it's really not.  It's not as subjective as LGATs are.  There are specific guidelines that physicians have to follow for prescriptions (yes, they're abused too), but the discretion is not nearly as liberal as LGATs.  They're not even regulated at all, as far as I'm aware.....as prescriptions are.  Hence, apples to oranges.

[Whooter]

Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.

Anne, this is a valid analogy.

I know where you were trying to go with it, but no.....it's really not.  It's not as subjective as LGATs are.  There are specific guidelines that physicians have to follow for prescriptions (yes, they're abused too), but the discretion is not nearly as liberal as LGATs.  They're not even regulated at all, as far as I'm aware.....as prescriptions are.  Hence, apples to oranges.

I am not talking about regulation/physicians etc....  If you take two pain killers they will relieve the pain...  if you take a whole bottle you will die.  The same medication can cure or kill you.

There are LGATs that Ford motor Company uses.  They dont humiliate or scream in your face.  They are intense but more towards a work shop and can be over in 8 hours.  there are also LGATs which can be very abusive with the screaming and humiliation lasting for days.  these may do damage to people.

Both are LGATs... one benign the other hurtful.

My point is that if you misuse something it can be hurtful.  If you use it properly it can help you.



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[Anne Bonney]

Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.

Anne, this is a valid analogy.

I know where you were trying to go with it, but no.....it's really not.  It's not as subjective as LGATs are.  There are specific guidelines that physicians have to follow for prescriptions (yes, they're abused too), but the discretion is not nearly as liberal as LGATs.  They're not even regulated at all, as far as I'm aware.....as prescriptions are.  Hence, apples to oranges.

I am not talking about regulation/physicians etc....  If you take two pain killers they will relieve the pain...  if you take a whole bottle you will die.  The same medication can cure or kill you.

There are LGATs that Ford motor Company uses.  They dont humiliate or scream in your face.  They are intense but more towards a work shop and can be over in 8 hours.  there are also LGATs which can be very abusive with the screaming and humiliation lasting for days.  these may do damage to people.

Both are LGATs... one benign the other hurtful.

My point is that if you misuse something it can be hurtful.  If you use it properly it can help you.

That's why it's not a good analogy and it's apples to oranges.

[Whooter]

That's why it's not a good analogy and it's apples to oranges.

I dont understand?  An analogy is intended to make a connection between two things that are unrelated.  Apples and oranges are two different things but they are both round and are both fruits.  Therefore you can make a connection between the two even though they are different.

Maybe you dont understand analogies and that is fine.

My point is that LGATs can vary in intensity.  They are not all the same and are not necessarily dangerous or abusive.



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[Anne Bonney]

My point is that LGATs can vary in intensity.  They are not all the same and are not necessarily dangerous or abusive.

I think they are, especially without informed consent.  These kids have no idea what they're in for and, again, you have no idea what it's like to be exposed to that, as a developing teen, with a still developing personality and mind, under uncontrolled circumstances....which all LGATs really are...uncontrolled & unregulated.  They don't have to be and the consequences can be devastating.

[Anne Bonney]

That's why it's not a good analogy and it's apples to oranges.

I dont understand?  An analogy is intended to make a connection between two things that are unrelated.  Apples and oranges are two different things but they are both round and are both fruits.  Therefore you can make a connection between the two even though they are different.

No, not really.  I think it's you that doesn't understand the definition.....





a·nal·o·gy
? ?/??næl?d?i/ Show Spelled[uh-nal-uh-jee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -gies.
1.
a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2.
similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
3.
Biology . an analogous relationship.
4.
Linguistics .
a.
the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon  was re-formed as shoes,  when -ize  is added to nouns like winter  to form verbs, or when a child says foots  for feet.
b.
a form resulting from such a process.
5.
Logic . a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

[Whooter]

Exactly,  The pain killer can help or hurt someone just like the LGAT can help or hurt someone.

It depends on how they are utilized.  They are both cures or they both could hurt you.



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[Anne Bonney]

Exactly,  The pain killer can help or hurt someone just like the LGAT can help or hurt someone.

It depends on how they are utilized.  They are both cures or they both could hurt you.

Yet one requires a credentialed education and medical qualification to dispense and the other.....well any 'ole jackass can lead an LGAT.

Apples to oranges.

[Whooter]

Exactly,  The pain killer can help or hurt someone just like the LGAT can help or hurt someone.

It depends on how they are utilized.  They are both cures or they both could hurt you.

Yet one requires a credentialed education and medical qualification to dispense and the other.....well any 'ole jackass can lead an LGAT.

Apples to oranges.

People can buy pain killers without a prescription.  Any ole jackass can dispense them.  we had kids in college who would dispense them all year long.  They may tell you to take two or four depending on how they felt.

So it depends on your perspective.



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[Whooter]

So I think one needs to look at the individual LGAT itself to determine if it is abusive or not.  I dont think we can make a blanket statement that all LGATs are abusive.



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[Anne Bonney]

People can buy pain killers without a prescription.  Any ole jackass can dispense them.  we had kids in college who would dispense them all year long.  They may tell you to take two or four depending on how they felt.

Not the kind that get you into trouble unless you're actively attempting suicide and then it really doesn't matter, if the person is serious.

So it depends on your perspective.

No, a qualified Doctor needs to dispense painkillers, especially the kind we're talking about.  Any asshole can hang a shingle and claim to be an LGAT "counselor".  There is a difference and you know it.

[Whooter]

No, a qualified Doctor needs to dispense painkillers, especially the kind we're talking about.  Any asshole can hang a shingle and claim to be an LGAT "counselor".  There is a difference and you know it.

No my roommate got plenty of pain killers from many different sources and he would give them to me on occasion.  He never saw a doctor for them.

But either way my point is that LGATs can be helpful or harmful depending on how they are constructed and who is running them.



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