Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy
Taylor Hurst
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Did I draw a dotted line and say HLA is the cause? NO. More spin and obfuscation by extrapolating to extremes on your part, Whooter. I will say, however, that it looks like HLA did not help, and may have contributed to the likelihood of something like this happening. There have been too many cases like this for there not to be a connection.
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Most of what you wrote is spin yourself, Ursus. So you admit that we cannot tie Taylors events back to HLA. They may have contributed they may not have. We agree here.
You go on to say that you feel that HLA did not help him. But we wouldn’t know if HLA helped him or not unless we knew what he entered HLA for. He may have entered because of academic issues. He may have been abused as a child and HLA wasn’t 100 % effective in helping him.
So I think we can agree HLA along with all the events in Taylors life had an effect on him either positively or negatively but not one single event can be isolated to say that it caused him to kill this girl.
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Shadyacres:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
So I think we can agree HLA along with all the events in Taylors life had an effect on him either positively or negatively but not one single event can be isolated to say that it caused him to kill this girl.
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One thing is obvious, the treatment he received at HLA did not stop him from committing murder, and may indeed have contributed to his emotional instability.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
So I think we can agree HLA along with all the events in Taylors life had an effect on him either positively or negatively but not one single event can be isolated to say that it caused him to kill this girl.
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--- End quote ---
One thing is obvious, the treatment he received at HLA did not stop him from committing murder, and may indeed have contributed to his emotional instability.
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I can agree with this, Shady, I dont think there is any program or treatment which could guarantee that the person would never murder anyone. HLA may have contributed to this emotional stability or it may not have. I dont think we will ever know. He may have been suffering with mental issues for awhile or had just started or stopped some medication.
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Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---It is mentioned in the article that he was indeed using drugs and alcohol, wasn't HLA supposed to cure him of that?
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I don’t think any of us know why he entered HLA. Maybe he was there for abuse issues and they are just now emerging. I don’t think anyone believes that programs cure anything especial drugs and alcohol.
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Actually, that is EXACTLY what the parents of most of these kids believe, because that is what the programs told them.
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More program lies!
--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Many of these programs are designed to get the kid back on track, build up their self esteem and strengthen family ties.
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Then why do they consistently accomplish the opposite of this?
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Yep. I was gonna say: Funny that you should mention that, Whooter, since these areas are precisely what many folks accuse them of destroying. Why is that?
--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---What is outside their boundaries? Their "treatment" effects the kid for his whole life. You know as well as I do Whooter that one of the hallmarks of these places is a kind of dissociative amnesia. The brain protects itself by "forgetting" extremely traumatic events, but it is usually only temporary. Often the person will have vivid flashbacks and nightmares that might not even start until they have been out of the program for 10 or 20 years.
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If something extremely traumatic occurs while they are in the program then I would agree.
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The programs themselves are extremely traumatic.
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--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---But again the program is designed to get the kids back on track.
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No, I don't think they are. They are designed to make the parents feel "right" about the subjugation of their own children.
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--- Quote from: "Shadyacres" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---The kids are not traumatized.
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What!?! Have you asked any of them?
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Whooter has, in the past, repeatedly likened the behavior modification used in programs (i.e., thought reform) to the behavior modification used in toilet training. Although I can't really speak for him, it appears that Whooter does not believe that program BM (thought reform) is wrong, or inherently psychologically invasive, or potentially damaging in and of itself.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Yep. I was gonna say: Funny that you should mention that, Whooter, since these areas are precisely what many folks accuse them of destroying. Why is that?
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You may feel this way because many here on fornits are distant from their families. I have seen the process and the results and they work towards bringing families together. Some kids may choose to not work in this area and stay distant from their families. Programs will not work unless the child puts in some effort.
--- Quote ---Whooter has, in the past, repeatedly likened the behavior modification used in programs (i.e., thought reform) to the behavior modification used in toilet training. Although I can't really speak for him, it appears that Whooter does not believe that program BM (thought reform) is wrong, or inherently psychologically invasive, or potentially damaging in and of itself.
--- End quote ---
I don’t think you could find many professionals at all which would say that Behavior Modification is damaging.
Toilet training is Behavior Modification. It can be abusive if you beat the kid or it can be gentile depending on how you choose to implement it. Learning to put clothes on before leaving the house is behavior modification. There is nothing inherently bad about this.
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