Author Topic: Public School and Program Abuse  (Read 35727 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #75 on: November 04, 2010, 03:29:35 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Whatever abuse that happens in schools isn't because of the methods the schools use to teach. The abuses that some from programs are BECAUSE of the very methods and techniques used. Quit comparing apples to oranges.

This is nothing more than another one if his distractions from the abuses that the TTI causes BECAUSE of their methods.

I think this may be true at straight, Anne, but todays programs are not about abusive methods.  There may be a few programs that utilize abusive methods which are still treading water but for the most part kids are not getting abused.  


Most programs utilize some form of LGAT or confrontation 'therapy'.  THAT in itself is abusive to use on children.

I disagree,  LGATs dont need to be abusive.  I know that they can be.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Shadyacres

  • Posts: 315
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2010, 03:44:18 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Whatever abuse that happens in schools isn't because of the methods the schools use to teach. The abuses that some from programs are BECAUSE of the very methods and techniques used. Quit comparing apples to oranges.

This is nothing more than another one if his distractions from the abuses that the TTI causes BECAUSE of their methods.

I think this may be true at straight, Anne, but todays programs are not about abusive methods.  There may be a few programs that utilize abusive methods which are still treading water but for the most part kids are not getting abused.  


Most programs utilize some form of LGAT or confrontation 'therapy'.  THAT in itself is abusive to use on children.

I disagree,  LGATs dont need to be abusive.  I know that they can be.

...


You are wrong.  Unlike the rest of us you have no experience with them and therefore your opinion on this matter means less than nothing.  LGAT's undermine the child's free will, which is disastrous to their ability to grow into a healthy adult.  How many times are you going to make this valueless argument?    :wall:


 :twofinger: Get a life, Whooter! :twofinger:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #77 on: November 04, 2010, 04:44:52 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"


You are wrong.  Unlike the rest of us you have no experience with them and therefore your opinion on this matter means less than nothing.  LGAT's undermine the child's free will, which is disastrous to their ability to grow into a healthy adult.  How many times are you going to make this valueless argument?  

Again (and I have pointed this out to you before) you are confusing your personal experience with those of others.  Behavior Modification can be abusive or non abusive.  LGATs can be abusive or non abusive.  If you experienced an abusive time in your program it doesn’t mean everyone does.   I am sure the kids who attended Columbine highschool during the time of the massacre feel their high school experience was an unsafe one, but it doesn’t mean that all highschools are this way or that all kids experience the same events.

You are only able to view the industry from your single experience,Shady, where I am able to see the larger picture and can see the good along with the bad.  Yes, I have read stories of kids who were abused, but I have also seen kids do extremely well.  You have only experienced negative stories so naturally you would not be aware of the total picture to make an informed decision on any of these topics with only partial information.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

  • Posts: 4290
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #78 on: November 04, 2010, 07:06:37 PM »
Whooter we're all still waiting on you to provide that list of programs you claim have made those positive changes to bring them up to being as safe as public schools. What's the hold up?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

  • Posts: 125
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2010, 09:49:23 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

Again (and I have pointed this out to you before) you are confusing your personal experience with those of others.  Behavior Modification can be abusive or non abusive.  LGATs can be abusive or non abusive.  If you experienced an abusive time in your program it doesn’t mean everyone does.   I am sure the kids who attended Columbine highschool during the time of the massacre feel their high school experience was an unsafe one, but it doesn’t mean that all highschools are this way or that all kids experience the same events.

You are only able to view the industry from your single experience,Shady, where I am able to see the larger picture and can see the good along with the bad.  Yes, I have read stories of kids who were abused, but I have also seen kids do extremely well.  You have only experienced negative stories so naturally you would not be aware of the total picture to make an informed decision on any of these topics with only partial information.

...
Yes, Shady's experience, my experience, and a whole hell of alot of other people on here, all of us have similar abused experiences in a program. And we all have been in programs. Just curious Whooter, exactly where do you draw your experience as such a grand authority on programs? The only place I have ever seen a positive review for a program is on their websites, or their advertisements. I don't see an entire website dedicated to exposing programs for all the good they do, but I see many, many sites out there to expose how wrong and abusive they are.

If you are so for programs, I'll make you an offer. I will gladly give you the full program experience for the bargain price of 10 grand. Then you can come here and actually have some credibility when you talk about programs. Hell, I've staffed "Teen Help" seminars, I've got a closet and some duct tape, I will hook you up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2010, 12:43:20 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Yes, Shady's experience, my experience, and a whole hell of alot of other people on here, all of us have similar abused experiences in a program. And we all have been in programs. Just curious Whooter, exactly where do you draw your experience as such a grand authority on programs? The only place I have ever seen a positive review for a program is on their websites, or their advertisements. I don't see an entire website dedicated to exposing programs for all the good they do, but I see many, many sites out there to expose how wrong and abusive they are.

One of the problems may be that you are not looking for them.  Many of the graduates have setup alumni forums and facebook discussions where they can get in touch with those people who they graduated with.  There are many of these created.


Quote
If you are so for programs, I'll make you an offer. I will gladly give you the full program experience for the bargain price of 10 grand. Then you can come here and actually have some credibility when you talk about programs. Hell, I've staffed "Teen Help" seminars, I've got a closet and some duct tape, I will hook you up.

Ha,Ha,Ha you must be referring to the guy who said he was wrapped from head to toe in duct tape and thrown into the ocean during a typhoon.  I don’t remember if he used the words Gulag, brainwashing  or kidnapping or not, but it was a classic story.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Shadyacres

  • Posts: 315
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2010, 01:12:24 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Yes, Shady's experience, my experience, and a whole hell of alot of other people on here, all of us have similar abused experiences in a program. And we all have been in programs. Just curious Whooter, exactly where do you draw your experience as such a grand authority on programs? The only place I have ever seen a positive review for a program is on their websites, or their advertisements. I don't see an entire website dedicated to exposing programs for all the good they do, but I see many, many sites out there to expose how wrong and abusive they are.

One of the problems may be that you are not looking for them.  Many of the graduates have setup alumni forums and facebook discussions where they can get in touch with those people who they graduated with.  

...

Hah!  Ever tried to browse one of those?  Most of them are closed, they won't let you in unless they know you.  That really doesn't fit the criteria ; " dedicated to exposing programs for all the good they do".  On the contrary, it tends to support our position that these places are extremely cult like and secretive.  What are they trying to hide?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2010, 01:34:28 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Hah! Ever tried to browse one of those? Most of them are closed, they won't let you in unless they know you. That really doesn't fit the criteria ; " dedicated to exposing programs for all the good they do".

There are many people who are threatened by their success stories and camaraderie and storm the forum with the intention to disrupt them…  Hmmmm  I am sure you are thinking: “Who would ever do something like that”?

Quote
On the contrary, it tends to support our position that these places are extremely cult like and secretive. What are they trying to hide?

Then I guess my highschool was a cult too because their alumni forum is closed also… whoooooo  very secretive and cult like.  That qualifies me for survivor status?  Lol

Can I start telling people that I was sent to a gulag and brainwashed?



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2010, 01:41:53 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Hah! Ever tried to browse one of those? Most of them are closed, they won't let you in unless they know you. That really doesn't fit the criteria ; " dedicated to exposing programs for all the good they do".

There are many people who are threatened by their success stories and camaraderie and storm the forum with the intention to disrupt them…  Hmmmm  I am sure you are thinking: “Who would ever do something like that”?

Quote
On the contrary, it tends to support our position that these places are extremely cult like and secretive. What are they trying to hide?

Then I guess my highschool was a cult too because their alumni forum is closed also… whoooooo  very secretive and cult like.  That qualifies me for survivor status?  Lol

Can I start telling people that I was sent to a gulag and brainwashed?


Oh just stop it!  You know damn well that they don't let ANY dissenting opinions thru.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2010, 03:08:03 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"


Oh just stop it!  You know damn well that they don't let ANY dissenting opinions thru.
Sure they do!  Most of us have read these forums back when they were open to everyone.  They argue all the time on what was good about the program and what was bad.  What they dont allow (like my highschool forum) are people from other programs (highschools) coming in telling them that they are brainwashed and using foul language etc.  You do this yourself, Anne,  you jump in and say "That sounds like my time at Straight!"  and then call the program abusive and a cult.  People get tired of hearing it after awhile and would like to discuss their experience with people who have attended it (not people who dont know what they are talking about).  So they had to end up closing it to alumni only.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

  • Posts: 125
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2010, 03:40:38 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

Public schools are having all these problems with teachers abusing students and programs are not experiencing this level.



...
Some information regarding abuse.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/paradisecove/ ... 03.02.html

Some information alleging that WWASPS operates programs and lies about their affiliation.
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... awsuit.htm
"Although the St. George, Utah businessmen, Robert Lichfield, Karr Farnsworth, and Ken Kay, claim High Impact was not affiliated with WWASP, former employees and parents testified otherwise. Employees said they were told not to reveal the program’s affiliation with WWASP. One former employee testified she had personally traveled to High Impact with current WWASP President, Ken Kay, who solicited her silence."

This one is very interesting.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/carolina/caro ... 06.03.html
"Clinical psychologist Roderick Hall has spoken with five former students of the corporation's facilities and says these programs do more harm than good.
"The people I have talked to have post traumatic stress disorder and there's no question about it," he said. This is often referred to as shell-shock. "I have one kid who e-mails me who is in college and still has nightmares.""

Quote from: "Whooter"

Those days are long gone, Gonzotherapy, programs today don’t operate like that.

I am not trying to slam you Gonzotherapy, but I think you perspective comes from a place that is not occurring now a days and is obsolete.  It has been shut down and you don’t have any insight to what todays programs do or how they are run.

...
The WWASPS name is all that is disappearing. If you take the time to read through some of the articles on these sites, you will find that is the only thing that is on the way out. Same people, same programs, same abuse, different names.

And of course I don't mean you Whooter. You are obviously well aware of all of this information. If you choose to pick this post apart, please site some evidence to back up your claims.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #86 on: November 05, 2010, 03:57:20 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Quote from: "Whooter"

Public schools are having all these problems with teachers abusing students and programs are not experiencing this level.



...
Some information regarding abuse.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/paradisecove/ ... 03.02.html

Some information alleging that WWASPS operates programs and lies about their affiliation.
http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/emancip ... awsuit.htm
"Although the St. George, Utah businessmen, Robert Lichfield, Karr Farnsworth, and Ken Kay, claim High Impact was not affiliated with WWASP, former employees and parents testified otherwise. Employees said they were told not to reveal the program’s affiliation with WWASP. One former employee testified she had personally traveled to High Impact with current WWASP President, Ken Kay, who solicited her silence."

This one is very interesting.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/carolina/caro ... 06.03.html
"Clinical psychologist Roderick Hall has spoken with five former students of the corporation's facilities and says these programs do more harm than good.
"The people I have talked to have post traumatic stress disorder and there's no question about it," he said. This is often referred to as shell-shock. "I have one kid who e-mails me who is in college and still has nightmares.""

Quote from: "Whooter"

Those days are long gone, Gonzotherapy, programs today don’t operate like that.

I am not trying to slam you Gonzotherapy, but I think you perspective comes from a place that is not occurring now a days and is obsolete.  It has been shut down and you don’t have any insight to what todays programs do or how they are run.

...
The WWASPS name is all that is disappearing. If you take the time to read through some of the articles on these sites, you will find that is the only thing that is on the way out. Same people, same programs, same abuse, different names.

And of course I don't mean you Whooter. You are obviously well aware of all of this information. If you choose to pick this post apart, please site some evidence to back up your claims.

Gonzotherapy, I am not going to pick it apart, your links stand on their own.  You are speaking to one small segment of the industry which is getting smaller.  If you speak to any of these kids who are getting out today (non-WWASP) you would see that the places are vastly different.  Like Anne Bonney, your perspective comes from a different environment and culture then we are seeing today.

Programs are just not experiencing the level of abuse that our public school systems are having based on the number problems reported each day.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

  • Posts: 125
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2010, 04:16:47 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

Programs are just not experiencing the level of abuse that our public school systems are having based on the number problems reported each day.


...
This is an incredibly misleading statement. Yes there may be more reported instances in public schools, who have about 56,000,000 kids enrolled this year. There are very limited records and I have no way of knowing how many kids are enrolled in programs. But I guarantee you it is nowhere near that amount, probably somewhere between 10 and 30,000. The percentages and ratios are the numbers that matter in this argument, until you can provide some proof that the ratio of abuse reports is higher in public schools compared to programs, your argument is a joke and clearly an attempt to provide people with misleading information.

I personally saw more abuse in ONE program than all of the reports you have stated here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2010, 04:26:05 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Quote from: "Whooter"

Programs are just not experiencing the level of abuse that our public school systems are having based on the number problems reported each day.


...
This is an incredibly misleading statement. Yes there may be more reported instances in public schools, who have about 56,000,000 kids enrolled this year. There are very limited records and I have no way of knowing how many kids are enrolled in programs. But I guarantee you it is nowhere near that amount, probably somewhere between 10 and 30,000. The percentages and ratios are the numbers that matter in this argument, until you can provide some proof that the ratio of abuse reports is higher in public schools compared to programs, your argument is a joke and clearly an attempt to provide people with misleading information.

I personally saw more abuse in ONE program than all of the reports you have stated here.

..and people who went to straight saw more than you did.  There was a recent poster who spent 4 years in Aspen Programs and didnt see any abuse.  So it is tough to get a level of the water based on a few posters here on fornits.

I am looking at the overwhelming number of reports coming out of our public school system compared to not any coming out of these programs on a daily weekly or monthly bases.  When was the last report we saw about a child having sex with their teacher in a program?  We dont have the ratios so we dont have exact numbers but the sheer volume is overwhelming.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2010, 04:39:40 PM »
November 4, 2010

A substitute teacher admitted to police that she performed oral sex on a 17-year-old Oakridge High School student earlier this year, but she isn’t being prosecuted because authorities have been unable to corroborate her confession with any other evidence, Lane County District Attorney Alex Gardner said.

The 40-year-old woman told Oakridge Deputy Police Chief Dale Scobert during a Sept. 30 interview that the illegal act occurred last spring at the male student’s home, a police report released this week shows.

The woman, who is married, told Scobert that she agreed to engage in sexual contact with the teen after they exchanged several suggestive and sexual text messages, the report states.

When asked why she did it, the woman told Scobert that the student “had been very persistent during numerous texts asking for it, and if she gave in she hoped he would stop asking and it all would be over,” the report states.

Scobert interviewed the student three days later. The teen denied ever having any physical contact with the teacher, although he did acknowledge exchanging text messages with the woman that were “flirty” but “nothing serious,” the report states.

He also admitted to Scobert that he fueled rumors of his alleged relationship with the teacher by telling his friends that they had engaged in sexual acts, the report states.

Absent some other witness statement or physical evidence that corroborates the teacher’s admission, prosecutors say they cannot charge the woman with a crime.

“Regardless of what we think of the case, as a matter of law, we can’t proceed,” Gardner said. “Everybody finds that frustrating, but the law specifically requires there be more than a confession.”

Oregon law allows a confession alone to serve as sufficient proof only under very rare circumstances. Otherwise, prosecutors are required to have additional, corroborating evidence before charging someone with a crime.

Gardner said many states have similar laws. One reason why evidence supporting a confession is required to gain a conviction in court is that people sometimes confess to crimes they did not do, Gardner said.

Lane County prosecutors would be willing to re-evaluate the Oakridge case if police develop additional evidence, Gardner said.

Oakridge schools Superintendent Dr. Don Kordosky said the teacher, who as a substitute has been an “at-will” employee who does not have an employment contract with the district, will no longer work in Oakridge schools.

“If it’s going to cause a disruption, we don’t want (a substitute teacher) back,” Kordosky said.

He added that while discussion at the high school regarding the student’s alleged fling with the teacher “has caused very little disruption,” many adults in the community have expressed concern about the situation.

The teacher has worked as a substitute at several Oakridge schools for at least five years, Kordosky said.

The Register-Guard will not identify the woman unless she is charged with a crime. She could not be reached Wednesday by telephone.


Link



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »