Author Topic: Public School and Program Abuse  (Read 33933 times)

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Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: Public School Abuse
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2010, 05:16:24 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

Do programs have less problems than public schools?
Or Do they go unreported?
Do they handle it internally with letters to the parents?
Are Programs required to make abuse occurrences public?
Are the kids just afraid to report it?


...

I think some comparisons should be made.

How many kids in public school have all communication with the outside world cut off for months or years while they are attending?

How many reports of abuse in public schools compared with TTI programs in a ratio of students enrolled?

How many public schools are located in third world countries where government supervision is limited/nonexistent?

How many kids have died in public schools as a result of unlicensed/poorly trained staff?

Any comments as to Whooters motivation for this thread should be placed in the OFFA, I'm taking a poll.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2010, 05:52:47 PM »
I changed the title of this thread to open it up to discussing Public school as well as Program abuse.



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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2010, 05:59:21 PM »
Oh good, you found a way to keep your garbage distraction thread on the New Posts list.  Keep it up Whooter, you only discredit yourself.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Public School Abuse
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
Quote from: "Whooter"

Do programs have less problems than public schools?
Or Do they go unreported?
Do they handle it internally with letters to the parents?
Are Programs required to make abuse occurrences public?
Are the kids just afraid to report it?


...

I think some comparisons should be made.

How many kids in public school have all communication with the outside world cut off for months or years while they are attending?

How many reports of abuse in public schools compared with TTI programs in a ratio of students enrolled?

How many public schools are located in third world countries where government supervision is limited/nonexistent?

How many kids have died in public schools as a result of unlicensed/poorly trained staff?

Any comments as to Whooters motivation for this thread should be placed in the OFFA, I'm taking a poll.

These are some good points, Gonzo.  Its too bad that the private sector are not required to keep the same records as our public sector does so that we could compare the 2 directly.  At first glance I would imagine that the 2 would be fairly close in numbers because they use similar background check agencies.  

Some thoughts:
It may be a little more difficult to prey on kids in programs because of the close oversight, staff/student ratio and structure.  
On the other hand the kids in programs are more isolated from the outside world.
Kids in public school sometimes have parents who allow them a long leash giving opportunity to a person in a power position to abuse a child over a long period of time.  Whereas in a program this would be difficult.

Overall I think it would be more difficult to abuse a child in a program setting because of the structure, number of staff  and difficulty to hide the abuse.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: Public School Abuse
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2010, 07:12:17 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

These are some good points, Gonzo.  Its too bad that the private sector are not required to keep the same records as our public sector does so that we could compare the 2 directly.  At first glance I would imagine that the 2 would be fairly close in numbers because they use similar background check agencies.  


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You mean these similar background checks?Name of Provider or Supplier
RIDGE CREEK, INC
Street Address, City, State Zip Code
830 HIDDEN LAKE RD
DAHLONEGA, GA 30533
Inspection Results
As of: Saturday, October 30, 2010
the agency documented only one reference.
(2) During an interview on September 9, 2010 at about 2:15 pm with Staff EE, Staff EE indicated
that she/he is responsible for completing and maintaining employee personnel files. Staff EE
monitors the files for compliance when time permits to ensure that files are updated; however
Staff EE indicated that she/he was not fully aware of all requirements in maintaining personnel
files other than what is indicated by the agency wide checklist of the required documents needed
in the personnel files.
(3) During an interview on September 9, 2010 at about 2:35 pm with Staff DD, Staff DD indicated
that agency protocol is that staff members are required to provide references within 90 days of
employment.
This tag was previously cited on 12-03-08.
[Written personnel records] records shall include the following: ...
5. Satisfactory preliminary criminal history background check determination and a satisfactory fingerprint records
check determination as required by law for the director and foster par
This Requirement is not met as evidenced by:
Based on a review of resident files and e-mail correspondence with staff, the facility failed to
document a satisfactory preliminary criminal history background check on adults aged eighteen
or older who reside at the home;


You mean the background checks that they dont do?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Public School Abuse
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2010, 07:22:04 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"

You mean the background checks that they dont do?

No, I mean the ones they that are done on staff and teachers (your post referred to resident kids. Public schools dont require background checks on students).  If the program is regulated then they are required to use the same background check agencies as the rest of the schools in the state (Public Schools).  Some background checks are more comprehensive then others are.

If public schools or private schools fail to do back ground checks then this leaves a gaping hole and this needs to be addressed. (I think we can all agree here)

Private schools which are not regulated by the state use various background check agencies which can be more comprehensive than what the state provides.  So Private schools can be a little more safe (on paper) than the public schools in this aspect.



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« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 07:37:57 PM by Whooter »

Offline Gonzotherapy

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Re: Public School Abuse
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2010, 07:36:53 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
No, I mean the ones they that are done.  If the program is regulated then they are required to use the same background check agencies as the rest of the schools in the state (Public Schools).  Some background checks are more comprehensive then others are.

Private schools which are not regulated by the state use various background check agencies which can be more comprehensive than what the state provides.  So Private schools can be a little more safe (on paper) than the public schools in this aspect.



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Then I guess the real problem is that programs alot of times are unaccredited and unlicensed schools. That don't do background checks. Is that more comprehensive, or less comprehensive when they just don't do it at all?

I guess we should just trust NATSAP
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/for ... php/NATSAP

Since Ridge Creek was a member and all.
http://www.ridgecreekschool.com/

That is a snazzy website, I wonder if it's unethical not to include all the child safety violations in their advertisement?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Public School Abuse
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2010, 07:46:09 PM »
Quote from: "Gonzotherapy"
]
Then I guess the real problem is that programs alot of times are unaccredited and unlicensed schools. That don't do background checks. Is that more comprehensive, or less comprehensive when they just don't do it at all?

If a school doesn't perform background checks at all then they would be at a greater risk of hiring a child predator.  I dont think being unaccredited or unlicensed means the school is less safe.  These schools could actually be more safe if they perform a more rigorous background check than the "boiler plate" checks the public sector does.  I think the posts on this thread show that the public school background checks are not very effective.

I think the key is looking at the frequency of the back ground checks and the type of check that is performed.


Quote
That is a snazzy website, I wonder if it's unethical not to include all the child safety violations in their advertisement?

No its not unethical.  I have never seen any school or business do that.  When was the last time you went into a hospital that showed pictures of people dying on the operating table hanging on the wall.  Or walked into a New car dealership with pictures of car accidents around for people to see?  They always put their best foot forward, everyone does.  I am sure you do too.


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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2010, 09:50:35 PM »
Plenty of kids get referred from public school districts to private duckfarms. Seems more than enough to make it of interest to the TTI forum to me.
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Offline Watchful Yeoman

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Dangerous Residents, Untrained Staff
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2010, 07:11:47 AM »
Ridge Creek School ORS Report excerpt:

Quote
Findings Include:
(1) Review of the record of eighteen year-old Resident #1 on September 9, 2010 revealed that the
agency failed to obtain a criminal background check.
(2) E-mail correspondence with Staff DD on 09/16/2010 at 8:32 am revealed that there were 23
other residents who lived or had lived at the facility since January 1, 2010. Staff DD
acknowledged that criminal background checks had not been obtained on any of these residents.

R 0838 290-2-5-.08(5)(d)9. Recordkeeping. Personnel Records.
SS=D
[Written personnel records] records shall include the following: ...
9. Documentation of orientation and training, including dates of all such training, as required by Rule .08(6)(d) of
these rules; ...
This Requirement is not met as evidenced by:
Based on review of personnel files and staff interview, the agency failed to document orientation
and training in eight of ten files reviewed;


This is typical in programs.  Example after example is exposed year after year.  These places are not changing or getting better.  They're the same as they always have been, as documented over more than thirty years.
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"The ricketty and scrofulous little wretch who first sees the light in a work-house, or in a brothel, and who feels the effects of alcohol before the effects of vital air, is not equal in any respect to the ruddy offspring of the honest yeoman; nay, I will go further, and say that a prince, provided he is no better born than royal blood will make him, is not equal to the healthy son of a peasant." [/i]

-John Randolph

Offline Whooter

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Re: Dangerous Residents, Untrained Staff
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2010, 09:42:11 AM »
Quote from: "Watchful Yeoman"
Ridge Creek School ORS Report excerpt:

Quote
Findings Include:
(1) Review of the record of eighteen year-old Resident #1 on September 9, 2010 revealed that the
agency failed to obtain a criminal background check.
(2) E-mail correspondence with Staff DD on 09/16/2010 at 8:32 am revealed that there were 23
other residents who lived or had lived at the facility since January 1, 2010. Staff DD
acknowledged that criminal background checks had not been obtained on any of these residents.

R 0838 290-2-5-.08(5)(d)9. Recordkeeping. Personnel Records.
SS=D
[Written personnel records] records shall include the following: ...
9. Documentation of orientation and training, including dates of all such training, as required by Rule .08(6)(d) of
these rules; ...
This Requirement is not met as evidenced by:
Based on review of personnel files and staff interview, the agency failed to document orientation
and training in eight of ten files reviewed;


This is typical in programs.  Example after example is exposed year after year.  These places are not changing or getting better.  They're the same as they always have been, as documented over more than thirty years.

This brings up a good point.  Programs are held to a higher standard then public schools in many areas, one being that students are required to go through background checks in programs, as Watchful Yeoman pointed out.  This may contribute to a lower incidence of abuse in programs as compared to Pubic schools making programs safer in this area.



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Offline Watchful Yeoman

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2010, 11:34:36 AM »
The ORS stated that RCS failed to do the background checks in 24 of 24 cases.  I'm not certain that not doing background checks at all equates to "safer."  It seems to me to scream "dangerous!"

These programs are dangerous and deadly for this reason and many others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"The ricketty and scrofulous little wretch who first sees the light in a work-house, or in a brothel, and who feels the effects of alcohol before the effects of vital air, is not equal in any respect to the ruddy offspring of the honest yeoman; nay, I will go further, and say that a prince, provided he is no better born than royal blood will make him, is not equal to the healthy son of a peasant." [/i]

-John Randolph

Offline Whooter

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2010, 12:25:45 PM »
Quote from: "Watchful Yeoman"
The ORS stated that RCS failed to do the background checks in 24 of 24 cases.  I'm not certain that not doing background checks at all equates to "safer."  It seems to me to scream "dangerous!"

These programs are dangerous and deadly for this reason and many others.

The background checks they failed to do were on the students (The staff and people who work at RCS were in compliance in this area).  There were 24 students who did not receive background checks.  When I was in highschool they never performed background checks on the students.

The ORS holds these programs to a higher standard than public schools which is good.  It lends itself to a higher standard of safety which may be why programs appear to be much safer (less reports of abuse) than public schools.



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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2010, 01:15:40 PM »
Whatever abuse that happens in schools isn't because of the methods the schools use to teach.  The abuses that some from programs are BECAUSE of the very methods and techniques used.  Quit comparing apples to oranges.
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Public School and Program Abuse
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2010, 02:51:40 PM »
People, people, people.

All Whooter is trying to say is that public schools are far safer than programs. He's provided numerous examples on here how accountability and oversight in public schools (the same oversight and accountability that programs try to avoid) has lead to the removal and in some cases incarceration of dangerous employees.

If only the TTI would open itself up to accountability and oversight it might someday be as safe as public schools.

Thank you for highlighting how dangerous the TTI is Whooter.
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