Do Programs Lie?

[Gonzotherapy]

I think that is a very good ethical question.  Is it lying if you do not disclose deaths that occurred within the program to prospective parents?  I am not convinced that it would be in all cases.

If the deaths were caused by something systemic to the schools process resulting in new children being placed in danger then withholding this information would be unethical and it would be lying to tell parents that their children would be safe there.  If on the other hand the children's death would be unrelated to the safety of the new children then there is no need to bring it up to prospective parents.



...

Actually I was referring to the lack of training of the program staff that is allegedly responsible for the deaths. Do you think the program told the parents that the people staffing the program are not trained properly? I have looked at many program websites and they all state that they have trained staff. There is no question of is this ethical or not. In my experience programs lie continually about the training and licensing of their staff. I know for some it is difficult to grasp whether a flat out lie is ethical or not, but I'm sure the parents of these two dead boys have no question that it is unethical behavior.

In fact the report on Ridge Creek shows how well staff are trained in physical restraint, 2 days verbal and 1 day physical. I think I have received more valid certifications out of a cracker jack box. If you go to the Ridge Creek website http://www.ridgecreekschool.com/ it doesn't mention how untrained and ill equipped their staff is. The report says they didn't even do background checks for resident staff.viewtopic.php?f=41&t=31560
Sounds like the same old stuff, different program. Ethics, well I guess ethics are relative. If you have no morals, sure, there is no problem deceiving parents to the point that you murder their children.

[Whooter]

Actually I was referring to the lack of training of the program staff that is allegedly responsible for the deaths. Do you think the program told the parents that the people staffing the program are not trained properly? I have looked at many program websites and they all state that they have trained staff. There is no question of is this ethical or not.

I disagree and believe you are wrong here, Gonzotherapy.  It was never concluded that the staff was not properly trained.  I took a look at Sergey Blashchishens' death at SageWalk and lack of training wasnt considered the cause.  In fact the investigation said that "..most were medically trained"Link at SageWalk.  Why should the program tell parents that their staff is not properly trained when in fact they are medically trained?

In fact the report on Ridge Creek shows how well staff are trained in physical restraint, 2 days verbal and 1 day physical. I think I have received more valid certifications out of a cracker jack box. If you go to the Ridge Creek website http://www.ridgecreekschool.com/ it doesn't mention how untrained and ill equipped their staff is. The report says they didn't even do background checks for resident staff.viewtopic.php?f=41&t=31560
Sounds like the same old stuff, different program. Ethics, well I guess ethics are relative. If you have no morals, sure, there is no problem deceiving parents to the point that you murder their children.

You may be right here, gonzotherapy, but you have not produced any evidence that Ridge Creek does not train their personnel properly for physical restraints.  The ORS have gone thru several audits of their systems ( ORS Reports Of Ridge Creek).  Was lack of training for physical restraints cited as a deficiency?  Is 2 days verbal and 1 day physical the standard for this type of training?  If it is then Ridge Creek is not lying to parents when they indicate that their staff is trained.

I will take a look around to see what the requirements are, but you have not provided a link to support your case against them in regards to physical restraint training.  

I dont think we can conclude the programs were lying or misleading the parents when they told them they had properly trained staff in these areas.  At least not with the information you have presented so far.



...

[seamus]

FOREGONE  FUCKING CONCLUSION :twofinger: WTF kinda question is that? DO POLITITIANS? LAWYERS? the  Fuckface talking heads on CNN,or FOX? HOWs ABOUT USED CAR SALESMEN? fuck me runnin. :wall:

[Froderik]

FOREGONE  FUCKING CONCLUSION :twofinger: WTF kinda question is that? DO POLITITIANS? LAWYERS? the  Fuckface talking heads on CNN,or FOX? HOWs ABOUT USED CAR SALESMEN? fuck me runnin. :wall:

 :roflmao:

[Ursus]

Plenty of program lies are exposed in the below statement made by Amberly Knight to PANI re. conditions at the Academy at Dundee Ranch from March to August of 2002.

This came from one of BuzzKill's posts, who probably has a source copy.

To the Minister of Child Welfare:

I worked as the Director at the Academy at Dundee Ranch from March to August of 2002. During this time, Mr. Joseph Atkin was the Financial Director. Mr. Kenneth Wilson was the Student Director. I replaced Mr. Ron DelAguila (who replaced Mr. Randall Hinton). After I left in August of 2002, Mr. Joseph Atkin replaced me. Mr. Atkin left in February of this year, and has been replaced by Mr. Francisco Bustos.

I feel that Dundee Ranch Academy should not be allowed to operate because it is poorly managed, takes financial advantage of parents in crisis, and puts teens in physical and emotional risk.

Dundee Ranch Academy is poorly managed, and this is why so many directors have left in the short 18 months that the school has been open. Company policies and procedures changed daily on the whims of Mr. Narvin Lichfield, the owner. While I was there, Mr. Lichfield and his wife (girlfriend at the time) often made it impossible for my staff and myself to do our jobs. For example, Mr. Lichfield and his wife often changed the rules of the program without informing the staff. They would give kids special permission to break rules, until it got to the point where the staff gave up trying to control the students. Mr. Lichfield and his wife often demanded that structural changes be made to buildings or that new buildings be built without obtaining the necessary building permits. Orotina authorities visited several times and threatened to close the place if construction was occurring when they returned. However, because the construction workers were more afraid of Mr. Lichfield and his fits of rage than they were of the local authorities, they would go right back to work as soon as the authorities were out of site.

The purpose of Dundee Ranch is not to help teens in crisis or their families. It is to make millions of dollars for the owner. Although the profit margins are approximately 50% -75%, Mr. Lichfield is unsatisfied. He continues to try to squeeze out every penny he can. This is achieved by hiring unqualified, untrained staff, providing the bare minimum of food and living essentials, and by adding huge margins to additional services. For example, if a student needs a ride to San Jose to visit the doctor, Dundee charges the parents $250 when it costs them $50. If a student sees the Doctor, parents are charged $50; Dundee pays $15. If a student needs medicine, parents are charged $30; Dundee typically pays $2 - $3. Parents pay $95 per month for "incidentals" like toothpaste and deodorant. These incidentals, while I was there, cost Dundee $15 per month.

While I was in the process of resigning from Dundee Ranch last August, an American male staff member assaulted and raped a female staff member at a location of about 100 meters from where all the students are housed. I was not on the premises at the time, but was involved in reporting the incident to the Costa Rican authorities and staying with the employee's mother who flew in from the United States. The parents of students who were in the program were not informed of the incident. Mr. Atkin, one of Dundee's many Directors, dismissed the incident to a Tico Times reporter as a "non-issue." One of the reasons that the incident was not made public was because the employee who committed the crime was a recent "graduate" of an affiliated program. The program claims a 92% "success" rate, and a drunken assault of a graduate would not be seen as a success.

This leads to another issue—untrained, unqualified staff. None of the staff members are trained to work with at-risk youth. The only reason we had hired Mr. Andy Lamb, a young 19-year-old with a history of abusive behavior, is because he knew the program, and was willing to work for the very low wage offered by Mr. Lichfield. According to Mr. Lichfield, "there was not enough money in the budget" to hire trained, qualified staff. Here are some other highlights:

The owner, Mr. Lichfield, has been involved with these types of programs for at least 15 years, but as the Marketing person, not as a clinical person.

The current director, Mr. Francisco Bustos, (as Mr. Atkin recently got fed up with the chaos and also left Dundee Ranch) has no experience. If you look at their website, it states that he has experience owning and operating 5 pizza restaurants. The reason he was hired is because he was a longtime friend of the owner's wife, Ms. Flori Alvaredo.

The "Family Fathers", the staff who spend all day with the students, give corrections and punishment to the students, and who are supposed to teach and kindly correct the students, are minimum wage workers who do not speak English.

The "Family Representatives", the staff that hold daily counseling sessions (called "Reflections") with the students have no training or background in this area. They are also the only point of contact between the program and the students and often find themselves in a family counseling role, for which they are not qualified.

They have only one trained psychologist on staff, who visits once a week, but parents must pay an additional $75/hour for his services.

I am the first to admit that I was not even qualified to be there. I hold a degree in Secondary Education, but took only one class in working with at-risk youth.

In addition to this, when I was there, most of the staff were disgruntled and frustrated with the way they were treated. Often their paychecks did not arrive on time or with the right amount of money. They often took their frustration at the administration out on the students. They treated students poorly (yelling at them, giving them extra "consequences".) Staff turn-over is very high. This creates additional instability with the students. During the year 2002, there were four different Directors. "Family Representatives" and teachers came and left monthly. This created additional emotional instability in the students who were already torn from their parents and allowed extremely limited time to talk with the other students in the program. The only chance they often had to talk was with staff, and those staff continued to leave the program.

As an employee, the only training I received was on how to manipulate parents. I was told many times that "there is no reason for a student to return home before 'graduating' the program". Once they are in, they are there to stay. This process takes 12 to 36 months. There were many students who had psychological, medical, or special education needs that we could not meet. When I suggested that they be sent to another place where they could receive the help they needed, I was told to "keep my mouth shut and make sure that their parents kept them there." I was threatened with my job. If there were students who would be better off going home or entering another program, I was not allowed to suggest this to the parent. Ironically, if the parents had concerns about what was going on, we were told to tell the parents that their children were "just manipulating them."

Students were not allowed to communicate freely with their parents, or anyone else. They were allowed to write a weekly email and letter, but the staff was instructed to read the email and letter and take out anything they did not like, or write comments to the parents. The students were not allowed to express their true feelings. Students were not allowed to talk with their parents until they were "Level 3", which could take anywhere from 4 to 24 months. At that point, they were allowed a 15 minute phone call once a month. Staff was instructed to hang the phone up and terminate their conversation if the student said anything negative about the program.

Students were not allowed to talk without permission. Typically, they would be able to speak with their friends for about 15 to 30 minutes a day. They were isolated from the outside world. They did not have a chance to view a newspaper or the internet. Emotionally, this was very difficult for the students, as many of them processed their emotions by talking about them.

When I first arrived, "restraints" were common. This was when a staff member would twist a student’s arm around their back and throw them to the ground or against a wall. I know of at least one case where an arm was dislocated. I insisted that this stop, and I am fairly certain that it did not happen while I was there. However, I have heard reports that this was started again after I left. Further investigation should be done.

Another punishment was writing "essays" of 3000 to 150,000 words. Students were required to sit in a dark room without proper back support, and write these essays until they finished the required number of words. Often, staff members, for no apparent reason, would rip up the essays and make the students start over. Students were required to write for 8 hours a day until their words were completed.

The worst punishment was "OP" or "Observational Punishment." In this, students were required to stand, kneel, sit, or lay on a cement floor without moving for 30 minutes at a time. They had to do this for 8 hours a day, until they had "served their time". When some of the kids accepted this, the staff made them run 100s of laps around the pool; just to make it miserable enough that the kids would want to comply.

Students had no voice. If they had a complaint, they were supposed to write a "grievance" on a piece of paper. Often, these were lost or confiscated by staff who did not want to look bad.

I stayed at Dundee because I wanted to make things run well, because I believe that when administered well, the program can be effective for some teens. However, many of the teens that were there at the time (and probably still there) would be much better served somewhere else. This was not an option because it would take money out of Mr. Lichfield’s pocket. I also realized that my efforts would never be successful. I could not hire and keep trained staff. I could not spend money on things the kids needed. Several times we ran out of toilet paper and the kids had to use notebook paper. I could not get Mr. Lichfield to begin the dorms that were so desperately needed, and that he promised to parents "were in the works". Everything was focused on the profits Mr. Lichfield could make, not on the health or welfare of the students. Some additional examples of this are:

The city water was disconnected and students were given well water to drink, because the city water was "too expensive". Shortly thereafter, approximately 40 students got diarrhea and eventually drinking water was filtered. This may have been a coincidence. But even if the water did not have any problems, they should have tested it before they began giving it to students.

The kids are crowded in their rooms. There are as many as 15 kids in what used to be a single hotel room. They were required to sleep from 8:00 pm to 6:00 am to save on staff costs. (We only needed 2 staff when the boys were in their beds, versus 6-8 staff when they were awake.) Mr. Lichfield did not want to spend the money to hire additional staff.

For the first 10 months that the school was open, there were no trained staff administering medicine. After several students were given the wrong medicine, or were not given their medication, I insisted on hiring two full-time nurses. Before that, the minimum wage staff members who could not speak English were required to pass out medicine.

I did not have the resources or support necessary to provide what I felt was a humane and safe environment for these teens. I was also concerned about the "High Impact" extension that was a copy of a program that was shut down in Mexico because of the death of students. For these reasons, I decided to resign in early August.

It would be my pleasure to speak to someone about these issues. I can be reached at [deleted], or by phone at [deleted] during the day, or at [deleted] during the evening.

Kind regards,
Amberly Knight[/list]

[Gonzotherapy]

Ridge Creek is not lying to parents when they indicate that their staff is trained.

You have not provided a link to support your case against them in regards to physical restraint training.  

I dont think we can conclude the programs were lying or misleading the parents when they told them they had properly trained staff in these areas.



...

Emergency Safety Interventions. Emergency safety interventions may be used only by staff trained in the proper
use of such interventions when a child exhibits a dangerous behavior reasonably expected to lead to immediate
physical harm to the child or othe
This Requirement is not met as evidenced by:
Based on review of resident files and staff interview, the agency failed to ensure when an
emergency safety intervention (ESI) is utilized, staff is trained in the proper use of such
interventions in one of one file reviewed;

This is in the report on Ridge Creek for those who are hard of intelligence. And here's the link, again.
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=31560

Yes, no evidence other than this government report resulting in the closing of Ridge Creek.

[psy]

FOREGONE  FUCKING CONCLUSION :twofinger: WTF kinda question is that? DO POLITITIANS? LAWYERS? the  Fuckface talking heads on CNN,or FOX? HOWs ABOUT USED CAR SALESMEN? fuck me runnin. :wall:

This may be vulgar but it is not attacking anybody.  It is on topic as well, addressing the primary topic, and as a bonus, happens to be fucking hilarious (pardon the french).

Seriously.  Programs lied to me.  I went to my program thinking it would be a simple boarding school.  My parents had some issues with me over things which I did not feel were problems (not related to drugs or alcohol, btw).  They wanted me to get some "therapy" for these things but I felt I was fine the way I was.  I did not want to change (quite frankly would be detrimental to my mental health), and was fine with myself the way I was.  The program lead me to believe explicitly that I would be allowed to progress through the program without such change. It was explicitly optional.

Later I find out, of course, that change is not optional in a program.  Basically, of course, this means that the program itself misrepresented itself in order to make business.  I was the victim of what I would consider a form of fraud.  And I will say that Benchmark Young Adult School did that to me.  First they told me I could pick my own issue. I picked quitting smoking, just because at the time it would be convenient.  They ask me to write my life's story, they ask me to share in group.  I think ... whatever.  Turns out you don't progress until they think you're being your authentic self, or as they put it "real".  So you try to pretend, but they know you're going to do that so they engineer failure.  In some mystical way you then start to believe they can see inside you, see some true self that doesn't even exits (but they'll show you).

You are confronted by your peers and told you don't know who you are inside and everybody around you who you've grown to trust is telling you that they were in your place and they felt the exact same way... And you don't really have the time or energy to think or resist anymore. Or they'll throw you on the streets for a night in a violent area without any money, identification, map, clothing... nothing.  And they intentionally select people who they know would have difficulty surviving in such an environment (in their marketing).  A friend of mine got raped.  By another program guy, i might mention.  All the while the program is telling parents that they're doing the right thing (the parents authorize this punishment, as did mine).  And you'll break eventually...  You'll start believing what they're telling you.  You start to thank them for violating your rights and bringing you to salvation. That's really the biggest thing the program lied about. It's dogma (especially the hidden seminar style stuff) is pure horse shit.

... and the parents sign on to a lot of it and trust the program blindly.  They even have their own seminars.  What kind of parent signs off on abandonment.  They only reason why they do it is because the program tells them it's the only way to help their kids.

But so many other things they lied about.  They said a lot of sand was for a volleyball court when in reality it's for punishment where you dig a hole and fill it up all day.  They said I could keep my computer because I have a documented writing disability.  They lied about that.  They made me fill up notebooks as punishment for my attempts to hold them to their word.  They were crooks.  They took property from the "students".  The "students" signed over their paychecks to the program willingly as they thought it was the god that was protecting them.  The program became the one and only way to avoid death, insanity, or jail.  They recruit from within.  It's basically a cult.

They believe that the ends justify the means and they'll lie, they'll cheat.  they'll perjure themselves, and if anybody on the program side of the argument wants to know why they're not moderators.  That's why.  We'll be fair with you as it's the right thing to do in order to bring genuine debate here, but we're not going to trust you.  Ever.  Your agenda historically has been to try and shut down open communication about this issue and those ends would justify playing just about any means.

We've experienced what you've done to us and we will not forget and a good portion of us will not forgive, including myself.  Some people deserve no forgiveness, especially when they are unrepentant and continue to hurt others intentionally. <-- respond to this bit in another thread, please.

[Gonzotherapy]

Wow, that is amazing. The incredibly similar tactics used at Benchmark, Dundee, and my experience in Paradise Cove. Benchmark has done an excellent job of covering up their abusive ways. It took me almost two full minutes to find an article accusing them of being a sham, exploiting troubled parents for every dime they can.
http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_d ... ls/page/2/

And what the hell is it with these programs and sand? We used to have to fill up 100 lb. sand bags and move sand from one place to another. On a beach. At least we had 10 cent rubber flip-flops (at least some of the time) to protect our feet from shards of coral and lava rocks.

[Whooter]

Emergency Safety Interventions. Emergency safety interventions may be used only by staff trained in the proper
use of such interventions when a child exhibits a dangerous behavior reasonably expected to lead to immediate
physical harm to the child or othe
This Requirement is not met as evidenced by:
Based on review of resident files and staff interview, the agency failed to ensure when an
emergency safety intervention (ESI) is utilized, staff is trained in the proper use of such
interventions in one of one file reviewed;

I do believe that many of these schools lie about certain aspects of services they provide.  But I don’t see how being written up for findings on an audit would be considered lying.  If this were the bases for determining lying then every agency in United States would fall into this category and there would be no differentiating a program from any other school (Public or Private).
I guess if HLA advertised that they provided staff with ESI training and the training records were reviewed every 10 days for accuracy or that they passed every audit.  Then I could see this constituting a lie.  But the finding by the ORS did not indicate that RC does not train any of their personnel.

Yes, no evidence other than this government report resulting in the closing of Ridge Creek.

If you look at the report summary at the end you will see that they have given Ridge Creek time to respond and correct the issues that they found in their inspection.  The school was not shut down for these findings.  If schools were shut down for minor to midlevel inspection findings then there would be very few  institutions open in the United States today.



...

[Troll Control]

"Do programs lie?"  Hell yes, they do.  It's part of their business model.

[Gonzotherapy]

FOREGONE  FUCKING CONCLUSION :twofinger: WTF kinda question is that? DO POLITITIANS? LAWYERS? the  Fuckface talking heads on CNN,or FOX? HOWs ABOUT USED CAR SALESMEN? fuck me runnin. :wall:

 :roflmao:

This brings up an interesting point. Used car salesmen lie for what, $500, $1000 maybe? Programs are pushing their stink for 2,3,4, $5,000.00 a month, for usually a year or more. So if a used car salesman will sell you a line of bull for a grand, how much bullshit do you think a program will feed a parent for 50 grand?
 :bs:

[BuzzKill]

Theresienstadt

Google it plus Nazi propaganda (Theresienstadt+Nazi propaganda)

Question: How many people saw the films the nazi's produced on Theresienstadt and believed with out question it was the truth?

Not suggesting the program operators are nazis - but there are valid comparisons one can make.

[seamus]

Many a truth was said in jest. Dont like my profanity .................lemme see if I can conjure up some give a shit.........um...wait,wait.........nope , no joy. This was not a personal attack on the op,just an observation on the question. How did my program lie to me........let me count the ways.....hmmmm lets go back to intake...hey if you dont like it here you can sign yourself out after 14 days, any str8 vets remember that one or hows about the you"ll automatically have 200 real friends one ,or the countless lies told to bullshit people into cutting their hair,remember that shit.
    Then theres the timeless and classic "its for your own good/in your best intrest" god, where does it end.....
 DAMN I nearly forgot....... every time you sat down after "relating" the fucking group said "LOVE YA" god knows what sort of feeble gooble the parents got fed, mercifully I wasnt privy to that......

    as a general matter of discourse though, did any of the outdoor based programs even have a fucking emt,or even qualified first responder on board? Out up the backside of beyond with a bunch of upset kids,push the fuck out of em' feed em shit dont insure hydration, what could go wrong? And who will un-fuck things when it does? Then kids die from negligence... no biggie , right? Just some kid nobody REALLY wants,oh and the "stats "(a whole new category of lies) say this number is very low ........fuck that. One is too goddamn many. And there but for the grace of god goes me. Oh heres a great lie to tell......they died from a "pre-existing condition" ( course it had nothing to do with being aggrieved by lack screening/ or medical care in that "golden hour" in the feild)...........fuckin kids cause of death SHOULD say adult stupidity.

[Anne Bonney]

What I find very interesting is the similarities between this program and the WWASPS program, very similar level structure, very similar "escort" methods, very similar ways of dealing with new and "out of control" detainees. And the fact that a therapist that Aspen claimed to be accredited who worked at their facility, was actually not. They were forced by the Utah Marriage and Family Licensing Board to correct the LIE that they had on their website. Hmmmmm. This sounds alot like the lies of the WWASPS programs, outlined in the lawsuit, and there is proof that licenses were not held when parents were told that they were.
http://www.wwaspsinfo.net/wwasps/WWASPCrimeReport.doc

Yup....same thing with Straight and it's successors.  Whooter tries to separate them and say 'yes, some programs are bad' but he ignores the fact that the very methods and techniques used by these places are abusive.  If a parent were to do to their kid what the programs do, they'd be locked up for child abuse.  I can't for the life of me understand why it's ok for an institution to get away with what no parent would be able to.

[Gonzotherapy]

Here is a excellent example of programs being liars by misrepresentation. This is David Gilcrease, the man who staffed my first seminar, they called it "Discovery" back then. Oh yeah and they called him a "Facilitator" because he has no license or accreditation to do therapy as far as I have found.
http://www.resourcerealizations.com/

Notice in the middle of his introduction he states that his Academy is recognized. By who? The pretend psychology institute of America?

Expert Education – The Resource Academy is a recognized learning institution whose purpose is to train, equip and certify facilitators and coaches to effectively impact change in lives and the world.

http://www.caica.org/Teen%20Help%20-%20men.htm

David Gilcrease, member of the Gilcrease family that founded Phillips Petroleum started experimenting with mind control/brainwashing in the early 1960's. He is founder of Resource Realizations, which has been sued along with the Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) for mentally and physically torturing and brainwashing America's children.
According to David Gilcrease, founder of Resource Realizations, people are to follow the new rules of the game which are listed as: power (accepting the will of those claiming authority), willingness to learn (ability to be brainwashed), choosing to change (never asking questions or demanding respect), respecting reality (accepting their version of reality), and seeing the world in terms of working/not working. The old rules of the game of life, according to Gilcrease are: control (of self), withhold (belief in privacy rights), victim (demanding redresses for being wronged), protection (expectation of safety from physical and mental distress), choosing to stay the same (refusing the brainwashing), denial of reality (denying the reality they wish to instate), and seeing the world in terms of right and wrong. The old rules being those that do not work or in plain English, are wrong for humanity.

Many personal accounts describe the seminars "brainwashing," "humiliating," and "destructive."

Several parents have reported that Resource Realizations staff members encouraged them to leave their spouse because he/she did not approve of the seminars.

David Gilcrease, Founder and President of Resource Realizations/Premier Education, is a former Lifespring trainer.

Lifespring has been classified as a cult.

As of yet I have found no official psychology/counseling training or certification for this quack.