What is a parent to do?

[Samara]

Oh, in that case...

Is. Dr. FT a real doctor, or does he just play one on TV?

[brian23083]

The absurdity of this thread is baffling, we have 2-3 people trying to give advice to this parent. If I may say it is posters that comment here very often and have earned a great deal of respect. All the while we have another crew working just as hard to rip apart the conversation here.
I would think at some point you would give the posters who are communicating with this parent the benefit of the doubt and move out of there way. I don't believe Oscar, Buzzkill and Ursus need to be educated on the parodies of Fornits.
Maybe we could all learn something from their actions.
Just say'in.

I am doing catch up on this thread. I wish people would listen to your good points. Is it possible to find out if Torn has really been banned? Do the admins say what rules he broke so the rest of us and new people can avoid making the same mistake?

[Fr0sty]

frosty - if your teen age son is 5'9" and down to 100 pounds while testing + for cocaine and other drugs, you can and probably should get him in a hospital.  Call your department of mental health and tell them you need a parent advocate to help you negotiate the court system and you need advise on getting your son admitted to a hospital for substance abuse that has reached life threatening levels. Take tons of notes and make sure they know your taking notes during each contact by phone or in person.  This will help you keep straight who said what and also make them aware there is a record of the conversation. A tape recording is a good idea if you can manage it. This could be valuable if they stonewall you. If your telling the truth your son needs medical care and you may need the court system to help you get it, so get busy. Going the "easy" route by paying for one of these private for profit placements would be a terrible mistake. A boy as frail as your son may now be could be easily killed in the standard synanon style program.

[I know I probably seem like Maia Szalavitz's publisher - but you might want to get your son a copy of Recovery Options.
http://http://www.amazon.com/Recovery-Options-Complete-Joseph-Volpicelli/dp/047134575X

We've been going down this road with him for a long time. I appreciate your suggestions, unfortunately I have tried the mental health department option and there is no help forthcoming. As I mentioned before, I have tried to involve the court system as well as probation but these systems are overwhelmed and no help. He has been cited twice for non-drug related offenses in the past 7 months and is still not on probation. I know the probation officer his case will hopefully be sent to and she is a great resource but unable to do anything offically until his file is on her desk. He has been hospitalized before but in California cannot be hospitalized against his will unless on a 5150 involuntary hold (danger to self or others, meaning basically suicidal or violent.) He went to inpatient treatment in January but didn't finish the program. Since drug treatment programs are voluntary for minors in California I have no way to compel him to get treatment without sending him out of state. It comes down to the fact that he has the right to refuse treatment and does so, even though he is basically killing himself. I am not new to this, as we have been through many types of treatment.

Someone else mentioned that the problem was "diagnosis shopping" or something to that effect. He was already doing cocaine when he got busted twice for selling pot at school in 9th grade. He was also hospitalized the summer before because he basically flipped out. This was in Washington state, where again, kids over 12 cannot be hospitalized involuntarily unless they are on a psychiatric hold. At the time he met the criteria and was in the psych ward for three weeks. As far as a diagnosis went, none was forthcoming since they could not catagorically say that his mental condition was NOT caused by drugs. Since then I have found that hospitals will not admit if there is a possibility that symptoms are related to drug use. Psychiatrists are equally unwilling to treat kids on drugs.

To sum up, this forum is far from the first place I have looked for help for my son. I have probably spent thousands of hours reading, in therapy, attending parenting groups, courses, and Al-Anon. My son has seen many therapists, psychiatrists, and been through intensive DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy.) I do not want to institutionalize my son but I also do not want him to die as a result of his addiction. I belonged to a support group for parents of children like my son. As you probably know, there are much worse cases. I stopped going after a while because it was so depressing. The thing that most struck me was the near complete lack of success stories. Almost no one's child got better, whether they went the "troubled teen industry" route or not. Ditto Al-Anon. That was probably the most heartbreaking as the addict "children" of one group were in their 50's!

So if I am unable to help my son what can I do? By the way, both the police and the probation officer suggested therapeutic boarding school as one of two options they knew of that had any success with kids like mine. The other was to take away absolutely everything: no phone, no computer, no bed, no door on his room and only one change of clothes. Anyway, I will read the book you mentioned, as I don't think I have read it yet. Perhaps there is something in there I haven't come across yet.

[Froderik]

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[BuzzKill]

I once bought these dvds: http://http://www.escapemeth.com/
Not saying there was an instant cure or anything ridiculous like that, but there is little doubt they did help.  I have to admit I have not seen them and have no idea what is portrayed. They vanished from the house as soon as they arrived - and then the comments started coming in from various kids - where did you get those? Why did you buy those? Man that really freaked me out - and some of those kids worked hard to get off the shit.

Going strictly on your sons height and weight and drug use - I'd argue he is committing passive suicide - and I'd argue it loudly to the mental health department and the social workers. To be blunt - they need to be afraid he'll end up dead and you'll have a civil case.  Getting him in a hospital won't cure him, but it will get him a good look over and one hopes in a situation where he will be able to gain some body weight and health back; also it might result in getting him connected with a therapist he'll be willing to work with.

There are plenty of successes in substance abuse. I have a cousin who was a "hopeless" drunk - he says one night as he was picking discarded wine bottles off the street and sucking the last few drops from them and realized "I really do have a problem"  - and he quite drinking. You'd never know he was the same guy today.  But it was his decision and this is the key.  What I like about Recovery Options is it offers real options - and sometimes this is what a person needs - not everyone responds to "meetings"; and it is always better if the patent feels they have some say and control in how their problem is treated.

[brian23083]

Fr0sty, A drug abuser is usually blind to the effects that he has on other people so you will never be able to rationalize with him.  He will always tell you (and himself) that his friends are much worse off than he is and they are doing fine,   Based on the information you gave so far there is little chance  life will improve with your son at home.    You know that your child needs to be placed into a detox facility.  Insurance will cover up to 30 days on average so you need to think of the next step after your child is detoxed.  Life must be really hell right now for you.
Another thing as you look for recovery programs be wary of programs which talk about recovery rates much higher than 50 %.  Your son has a 50/50 chance of recovering after his first try.

[Torn]

I have not been banned and as far I know, none of my IP addresses were either.  I've been quiet the last few days because I'm out of town with spotty internet access.

For the few who seem to care, I am officially converted - I cannot imagine any scenario in which we will send our daughter to one of these programs.  I am convinced they do more harm than good, they will certainly not further our goals for her academic achievement, and she still shows sparks of interest in doing the right thing.  We want to fan the flames of her ambitions rather than snuff them out.  We're going to start family therapy, with or without her, and we'll weather the storm while she grows out of this stage of reckless immaturity.

Many thanks to those who offered sage advice, and to those who continue to protest in vain about my presumed identity, you too have helped, if only by showing what kind of person I do *not* want my daughter to become.

Best wishes for you all, especially the survivors,

 -- Torn

[Maximillian]

After all of that trolling, logging in, logging out, proxying up, et cetera Whoot's efforts are relegated to the OFFA garbage can right where they belong.  Perfect.

[LeahKrosses]

I'm sorry to hear that, sometimes in our lives we make wrong decisions, it is important that parents should look after the well being of their children. It's not your fault that your daughter had made wrong decisions that may affect her life with tremendous consequences, what you can do is guide her to the right path during her life. Its very important that while shes still young you can instill the right path in life. There are lots of organization and institution that caters to what your undergoing juvenile boot camps can be a great example, they have specifically designed programs to help you as a parent and also for your daughter.

[Edward Kahn]

Hello, LeahKrosses!  I also recommend boot camps.  Only for children though, not parents.  Remember, it's the children who need punishment, not their parents.  Plus boot camps are inexpensive.

[Ursus]

I'm sorry to hear that, sometimes in our lives we make wrong decisions, it is important that parents should look after the well being of their children. It's not your fault that your daughter had made wrong decisions that may affect her life with tremendous consequences, what you can do is guide her to the right path during her life. Its very important that while shes young you can instill the right path in life. There are lots of organization and institution that caters to what your undergoing, juvenile boot camps can be a great example, they have specifically designed programs to help you as a parent and also for your daughter.

Oh, sending kids into those boot camps is sure to remedy quite a variety of ills, eh?   Especially ones more pertinent to your employer's cash flow, Leah...

 

[Ursus]

I have not been banned and as far I know, none of my IP addresses were either.  I've been quiet the last few days because I'm out of town with spotty internet access.

For the few who seem to care, I am officially converted - I cannot imagine any scenario in which we will send our daughter to one of these programs.  I am convinced they do more harm than good, they will certainly not further our goals for her academic achievement, and she still shows sparks of interest in doing the right thing.  We want to fan the flames of her ambitions rather than snuff them out.  We're going to start family therapy, with or without her, and we'll weather the storm while she grows out of this stage of reckless immaturity.

Many thanks to those who offered sage advice, and to those who continue to protest in vain about my presumed identity, you too have helped, if only by showing what kind of person I do *not* want my daughter to become.

Best wishes for you all, especially the survivors,

 -- Torn

Wishing you the best as well!

Sometimes it's real easy to see things as being worse than they really are, especially when viewed through the lens of a concerned parent. The fact that she still shows "sparks of interest in doing the right thing," and the fact that you recognize it, speaks volumes!

Kudos to the both of you for trying to keep the focus on real goals that are in her long term best interests such as academic achievement, rather than pro forma compliance with familial rules and regulations. Of course, I'm sure it would be a lot easier on ya to have both, but... some things are more important!

[Torn]

We took the advice of some here and started counselling for us (parents) without our daughter.  The key of course is finding someone competent and I believe we've found a good one, who specializes in this field.

Its a very difficult thing to do, letting go and watching your child make bad decisions - but aside from setting herself back academically and ruining her once (model potential) beauty with piercings, shaved eyebrows and skin damage from poor makeup decisions, I don't think she's in significant immediate danger.  She may be doing drugs, she may get pregnant - but its her life and all we can do is try to offer guidance if and when she is willing to listen.  That's basically what we've learned from therapy, that we need to try new strategies for motivating her but ultimately we cannot control her.  Programs are an extreme response for desperate parents who are willing to spend an entire college fund or life savings to get their kids back on track but really I think when it has reached that point its too late to assert control.

Midway through the school year she had her grades up to A's and B's in all classes.  She ended with 4 F's and a D.  Its heartbreaking to watch.  I think she got a wakeup call when her summer plan to get a job was dashed by the requirement of a work permit from school, which they would not grant because she had 30+ truancies.  Now she's in summer school and claims an A so far.  All I can do is watch and hope.  Rewards await good behavior, so I hope she can find the path.

Thanks again to those who helped us avoid making a bad decision.  And for the rest, I hope you find peace too.

 -- M

[BuzzKill]

Thank you for the update. I have wondered at times how your family was getting along. I know what your living through is heartbreaking. It is cold comfort to be told it could be so much worse; and little else to be told things will get better in some distant seeming someday. I really wish you could see what my family was like ten to 15 years ago and how different things are now. It would give you considerable hope Not to say things are perfect - but no one and no family ever is - and how boring would that be anyway? Think of your friends with their seemingly (b/c it is an illusion) perfect families - dull as dish-water aren't they?  Try and keep a sense of humor about things and take lots of pictures of the wild hair and so on - they may provide some measure of revenge one day and will surely come in handy as reminders to suddenly very conservative daughters when your grand-children hit their teens.

[grapeape]

Dear Torn,  I am so glad you decided not to send your daughter away.  Not only would it be damaging but you would miss the most important years of her growth and you can never get that back.

She is showing how motivated she can be when she has internalized certain knowledge like seeing for herself there are certain steps needed to be taken in order to get what she wants: school/job.  That is something she had to learn from experience, not from being told.  It is good that you are in therapy but be really careful because there are a lot of incompetent or just ineffective ones out there.  As a mother of three grown kids looking back I can say without a doubt that each time I took an "expert's" advice against my own instinct it was disasterous.  Conversely each time I ignored the experts and external pressure and followed my instincts it turned out to be the exact right thing.  You, not the experts, have to live with your decisions so let them be yours.

It may be time to ease up on the "help"...psychiatrically speaking...for your daughter because the more you try to help her that way the more she interalizes the feeling that something is wrong with her that needs fixing.  Something both her parents find so wrong that not even they can fix like they used to when she was little.  This  can be depressing because she can't fix it nor can the experts.   The more experts that are involved with their varing and sometimes conflicting advice, the less faith and more resentment she will have  as well as the feeling that she must be really bad if even the experts can't fix it.. Also do not tell yourself or anyone else, especially your daughter that think you have failed as a parent.  We all feel inadequate and know we can do better but when we guilt ourselves then it is our children who feel like a defective product of our faulty parenting.  I used to do that; now if it comes up I always tell my kids I must have been a great parent because they turned out so wonderful.  I find whatever positive trait I can and focus on that. Of course it has to be sincere and honest to work.  Ask her to teach  or show you something; bring out the mentor in her so you have something honest to praise. I also found what worked for me is to lighten up and find the humor in things.  We get so intense we forget to have fun and laugh with our kids.  Many annoyances and challenges can be minimized with laughter.  I find that laughing at myself and my own foibles eases the tension.  It is very hard not to relax and enjoy being with someone who makes you laugh; it really is the best medicine, espcially when it seems like there is nothing to laugh about!  

Good luck.  Trust your instincts above all. When at a crossroads follow the path of unconditional love, it, not societal expectations, will take you where you really want to go. You sound like a good person   I hope things go well for your family.