Author Topic: Why do programmies have to lie?  (Read 1302 times)

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Offline RobertBruce

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Why do programmies have to lie?
« on: October 16, 2010, 04:19:12 PM »
Whooter recently made a thread entitled "Why do Survivors have to lie" . After a brief conversation it was apparent that Whooter was only trying to incite people, as he has zero evidence to support his claim that Survivors lie about being abused.

The fact of the matter is that we have no need to lie about our experiences or the abuse we suffered during our time locked up in programs. The truth is always bad enough. Why would we need to lie?

Now on the other hand, programmies aka child abuse supporters lie all the time. Both while we were locked up, and once we got out. So my question then is why? I mean if they really believe this nonsense about how abusive tactics, and coereced therapy, rationed food, physical, emotional, sexual, and mental abuse, restricted communication, and legal kidnappings are all somehow effective and good, why not be honest about it? Why not stand behind their products and be proud of the nonsense they are spewing out? Why try and lie?
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Offline thomasC

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 06:54:08 PM »
The obvious answer is because they don't believe those things.  They lie because they have to.  Pretty fucking sick.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 07:03:12 PM »
Quote from: "thomasC"
The obvious answer is because they don't believe those things.  They lie because they have to.  Pretty fucking sick.

If you want to discuss issues in the TTI forum then watch your mouth. There is no reason for vulgarity or calling people names.
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 07:05:15 PM »
Clearly these people are only ever motivated by money, but there must be that extra sociopathic trait that Whooter admits having himself. I mean what kind of sick person thrives on hurting children, bilking their parents, and then lying about all of it?
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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 07:54:11 PM »
Wow, what an easy question.  Greed.  They sell a product which hurts people, even kills people.  Their treatment model is nearly identical to “thought reform” techniques widely recognized to be harmful and counterproductive, especially to developing teens.  It is in their best interest financially to keep this information from the general public.  It is painfully obvious that the driving force behind these places is greed, not altruism, and if the general public were to find out how destructive these places are to a young psyche all these programmies would be out of a job.

   Also, I think you kind of have to be a sociopath in the first place to want to start one of these places or to be in this business for any length of time, and lying and manipulating is just part of that sociopathic behavior.


 ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::
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Offline thomasC

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 08:48:30 AM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
If you want to discuss issues in the TTI forum then watch your mouth. There is no reason for vulgarity or calling people names.

Maybe it's just the limits of vocabulary, Danny.  I'm searching for a better description but I really just can't think of one.  Let me know if you can help me out with word choice here.
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 11:05:03 AM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Wow, what an easy question.  Greed.  They sell a product which hurts people, even kills people.  Their treatment model is nearly identical to “thought reform” techniques widely recognized to be harmful and counterproductive, especially to developing teens.  It is in their best interest financially to keep this information from the general public.  It is painfully obvious that the driving force behind these places is greed, not altruism, and if the general public were to find out how destructive these places are to a young psyche all these programmies would be out of a job.

   Also, I think you kind of have to be a sociopath in the first place to want to start one of these places or to be in this business for any length of time, and lying and manipulating is just part of that sociopathic behavior.


 ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::  ::evil::


I agree. That's why there's such a high rate of turnover at all of these places. The people who buy into the scam and actually believe these places help kids are quickly fired or quit. Meanwhile the sadist are promoted and stay on for years, or simply move to another program ala Rudy Bentz.
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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 06:14:38 PM »
Why does water have to be wet?  Why does fire have to be hot?  Their whole philosophy is a lie aimed at attaining the intense but short lived obedience of children at the expense of their long term psychological health and of their childhood itself.  These people care nothing about the children they are "helping", only about their parents money.  Of course, they can't let the parents know this, so they have to lie.
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 07:37:25 PM »
Do you imagine any of them actually believe in their product?
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 01:18:26 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "thomasC"
The obvious answer is because they don't believe those things.  They lie because they have to.  Pretty fucking sick.

If you want to discuss issues in the TTI forum then watch your mouth. There is no reason for vulgarity or calling people names.

You've GOT to be kidding.   ::)
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 03:51:08 PM »
The propagandist always believes his own propaganda, that's why.

It isn't even lying to them; they simply decide to believe something and then say that.

Compare with more widely-known propagandists like Beck, Goebbels, and Rove.
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...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 04:06:45 PM »
My experience was that my niece told the truth about her family/family dynamics, and her honesty got her sent to a program.

Meanwhile her parents were the liars and manipulators who, for example, lied to my niece and told her they were going on a family vacation, when in fact she was handed over to goons who transported her to a program. My niece was honest about being angry that they did this to her, while her parents wanted her to lie about her feelings and say she liked and needed the program.

Her parents lied to all of us when they said she would only be there for a few months, when she was there for more than 3 years with no home visit (although in fairness, I don't know if this was a lie told to them by the program). The program also told a whopper when they diagnosed her, absurdly, with Asperger's (she did not and does not have the symptoms).

Manipulation and lies were tools the parents and the program used to force conformity, while honesty and truth got my niece sent there and kept there.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 07:05:51 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
My experience was that my niece told the truth about her family/family dynamics, and her honesty got her sent to a program.

Meanwhile her parents were the liars and manipulators who, for example, lied to my niece and told her they were going on a family vacation, when in fact she was handed over to goons who transported her to a program. My niece was honest about being angry that they did this to her, while her parents wanted her to lie about her feelings and say she liked and needed the program.

Her parents lied to all of us when they said she would only be there for a few months, when she was there for more than 3 years with no home visit (although in fairness, I don't know if this was a lie told to them by the program). The program also told a whopper when they diagnosed her, absurdly, with Asperger's (she did not and does not have the symptoms).

Manipulation and lies were tools the parents and the program used to force conformity, while honesty and truth got my niece sent there and kept there.

I think this serves as a very good example on how to communicate to the general public how a child was handled and this also serves to help communicate my point at bit more.

".....when in fact she was handed over to goons who transported her to a program."

If AuntieEm2 had written that her niece was kidnapped and taken to a Gulag and placed in isolation for 3 years where she was cut off from society  and systematically tortured and brainwashed I think we would all agree that we could not be sure how long she spent in her program.  

We would ask ourselves: "Was the 3 years exaggerated the same as the kidnapping was ?"

The language that AuntieEm2 chose to use was open and honest and we can believe that "3 years" is not an exaggeration (in my opinion), whereas in the previous paragraph we would all doubt that she spent that long in a program at all based on the other exaggerations in the sentence.  We would probably conclude that she spent a few months there maybe.

so I think it is important to chose the words wisely and be accurate about what happened to you from start to finish.



...
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Why do programmies have to lie?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 08:18:09 PM »
Whooter you created your own thread related to what you claim are survivors exaggerations. Please keep your comments directed to that topic there. This thread is dedicated to the lies programmies tell, not the truths that survivors tell.
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