Many Many Programs Abuse Kids

[Whooter]

So according to Whoot the kids in programs are denied contact with their families to prevent them from being abused by their family members? What?

Well, Shaggys, you seem to following some other posters passion to misrepresent what I say.  

Lets say that a child has been abused by their Uncle Chucky.  This child has been placed into a program and is undergoing therapy and this information comes to light.  It may be suggested that contact with this family member should be suspended.  

I dont think cutting off communication with this family member would be abusive to the child, in fact it would be abusive to allow this child contact with the Uncle.  Think along the same lines as friends sending in packages.  I think we can all agree that as a minimum the packages should be searched or opened in front of staff.



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[RobertBruce]

And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.

[Whooter]

And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.

Programs do allow open communication between parents and child.  There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.

There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication.  but it is not true.



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[Shadyacres]

And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.

Programs do allow open communication between parents and child.  There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.

There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication.  but it is not true.



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Fifteen minutes a week with the "counselor" sitting right next to them to do what Whooter does here, spin.  The "counselors" are right there to hear everything they say to their parents.  The child's abusers are right there, while the child is trying to explain the abuse to his parents, poking holes in everything the child says and attacking the child's credibility.  Then of course, when the "counselor" assures the parent that there is no "abuse" and the parent goes home, then the living hell that has become the child's life gets even worse.  Open communication?  I think not.

[Anne Bonney]

And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.

Programs do allow open communication between parents and child.  There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.

There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication.  but it is not true.

Fifteen minutes a week with the "counselor" sitting right next to them to do what Whooter does here, spin.  The "counselors" are right there to hear everything they say to their parents.  The child's abusers are right there, while the child is trying to explain the abuse to his parents, poking holes in everything the child says and attacking the child's credibility.  Then of course, when the "counselor" assures the parent that there is no "abuse" and the parent goes home, then the living hell that has become the child's life gets even worse.  Open communication?  I think not.

 :notworthy:  :tup:  :tup:

[Whooter]

And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.

Programs do allow open communication between parents and child.  There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.

There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication.  but it is not true.



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Fifteen minutes a week with the "counselor" sitting right next to them to do what Whooter does here, spin.  The "counselors" are right there to hear everything they say to their parents.  The child's abusers are right there, while the child is trying to explain the abuse to his parents, poking holes in everything the child says and attacking the child's credibility.  Then of course, when the "counselor" assures the parent that there is no "abuse" and the parent goes home, then the living hell that has become the child's life gets even worse.  Open communication?  I think not.

I would agree with you that if that did occur then it would not be considered open communication.  What I am referring to is the child being able to speak to their parents privately and have a back and forth without staff involved.  This is the experience that I have seen in programs.  Those program which restrict a childs phones conversation (as you described) would not be considered open communication in my opinion.

What typically works is if the parents speak up during their periodic meetings with school staff and indicate that they would like certain changes made to the program.  Eventually the program will get the message as it did in our case at ASR when we asked for changes to be made.



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[RobertBruce]

I would agree with you that if that did occur then it would not be considered open communication. What I am referring to is the child being able to speak to their parents privately and have a back and forth without staff involved. This is the experience that I have seen in programs. Those program which restrict a childs phones conversation (as you described) would not be considered open communication in my opinion.

What typically works is if the parents speak up during their periodic meetings with school staff and indicate that they would like certain changes made to the program. Eventually the program will get the message as it did in our case at ASR when we asked for changes to be made.

The experience you have seen in programs? No John, you have no experience in programs. At least until you start being honest that is. That's got to really burn you up. You know you actually would be able to speak from a place of experience if only you could tell the truth about who you are. Until then you can't. Unless of course you want to try and claim that in the half an hour you spent on the guided tour at your make believe daughters program that they somehow allowed you witness kids private phone calls.

The fact of the matter is that the policy in these programs is that all communication between parent and child is restricted, and it is abusive.

[Samara]

Shady's description of calls were the same for CEDU. Except it was every two weeks. Phones were locked in an office; a staff member sat beside you. You were not free to talk openly.If you even said something slightly negative, you'd never make that mistake again.

[Whooter]

Shady's description of calls were the same for CEDU. Except it was every two weeks. Phones were locked in an office; a staff member sat beside you. You were not free to talk openly.If you even said something slightly negative, you'd never make that mistake again.

It would be great if we could get all that behind us.  I dont think CEDU will be around very much longer unless they start allowing more open communication with the family like many of the other programs do.  I wouldnt judge all programs based on your experience at CEDU, just like we cant compare todays programs with the process they used at programs like straight.

On a positive note communication has greatly improved over the past 30 years so at least these places are heading in the right direction.  They may not be moving fast enough, I agree, but they are improving.



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[RobertBruce]

In what ways John? We've already proven the communication policy hasn't changed at all between HLA 14 years ago, and RC today.

So what's changed?

[DKincaidCFS]

Shady's description of calls were the same for CEDU. Except it was every two weeks. Phones were locked in an office; a staff member sat beside you. You were not free to talk openly.If you even said something slightly negative, you'd never make that mistake again.

I haven't seen this censoring of communication described yet in the thread "How Was Compliance Gained?"  Would you mind coming over to that thread and detailing how the communication was controlled as a means of controlling you?

[Whooter]

I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.

Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.

Folks lets give this thread another shot.  Shaggy has invited victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate.  That is the topic and not program improvements.

It would also be helpful to the readers if the poster would provide a time period to the abuses that you saw and the name of the program.  This way we can see if the practices still affect children in programs today.

i.e. Straight 1978.



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[Shadyacres]

I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.

Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.

Folks lets give this thread another shot.  Shaggy has invited victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate.  That is the topic and not program improvements.

It would also be helpful to the readers if the poster would provide a time period to the abuses that you saw and the name of the program.  This way we can see if the practices still affect children in programs today.

How?


i.e. Straight 1978.

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I do not see your logic.  Do you mean that because my experience in an abusive program happened 25 years ago, today's programs cannot possibly be abusive?  Please explain this.

[Whooter]

I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.

Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.

Folks lets give this thread another shot.  Shaggy has invited victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate.  That is the topic and not program improvements.

It would also be helpful to the readers if the poster would provide a time period to the abuses that you saw and the name of the program.  This way we can see if the practices still affect children in programs today.

How?


i.e. Straight 1978.

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I do not see your logic.  Do you mean that because my experience in an abusive program happened 25 years ago, today's programs cannot possibly be abusive?  Please explain this.

Not at all Shady,  I didnt mean that.  Shaggy indicated that he wanted everyone to share their experiences and said that he thought many of these practices still occurred today.  If we put a time stamp on the individual experiences we could see when they occurred. If we compare the experiences of long ago with those of today we can help answer shaggys question of whether these practices still occur today or not and/or compare similarities.



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[Whooter]

Lets say that 5 posters post that they were placed in isolation for violating a major rule.  If there were no time stamps then we really wouldn’t know if these practices still occur today.

Lets say that the time stamps indicate the following:

1)   1978
2)   1982
3)   1998
4)   2007
5)   1981

We could conclude that this specific practice is still in use today (as late as 2007) and would satisfy Shaggys original statement.  Without the time stamp we may never know if these practices are current or not.  Do you see what I mean?  I think it would help.



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