Author Topic: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids (Read 10363 times)

Shadyacres · « **Reply #30 on:** October 02, 2010, 08:18:41 PM »

Quote from: "Whooter"

Quote from: "shaggys"
When i was in Straight inc kids were confronted with verbal abuse of the harshest stuff imaginable. These confrontations would sometimes continue for hours. Inmates were forced to participate in the verbal assaults of other inmates. This activity was always directed by staff members. It is my understanding that these same methods are still being used in many teen treatment centers today.

That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs.

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The program I was in was marketed as a "kinder, gentler" version of Straight Inc. As was Pathway and Kids Helping Kids. We now know that there was no appreciable difference in the treatment methodology. This is an old lie that this industry has been telling for a long time. The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.

DannyB II · « **Reply #31 on:** October 02, 2010, 09:02:31 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

Quote
That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs

It's the same reason posters from the 90's and 2000's have the same view of the program. It's not negative John, it's honest. Nothing has changed, the same stuff happens. These places are all abusive. You only highlight your ignorance by avoiding the truth on these things you make money off of. You only further highlight that people who work in this industry like yourself don't care about how much kids are abused, just so long as they show up with a check.

That is not true at all Robert, posters have not flocked here to tell you the programs of the 2000's have not changed. It has been a minuscule amount of people who have come here to share in comparison to the amount of people who have gone through these programs.
Yes there have been abuses from ill-trained and rouge staff members and this is unacceptable but to say it is just like it has always been is another fabrication on your part.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #32 on:** October 03, 2010, 01:19:45 AM »

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That is not true at all Robert, posters have not flocked here to tell you the programs of the 2000's have not changed. It has been a minuscule amount of people who have come here to share in comparison to the amount of people who have gone through these programs.
Yes there have been abuses from ill-trained and rouge staff members and this is unacceptable but to say it is just like it has always been is another fabrication on your part.

Oh Danny, are you under some misguided impression that fornits is the only venue for abuse survivors to communicate? Your ignorance once again shines through. Even if it were the only venue the reports we have coming in are strikingly similar to the reports given from earlier decades. Thus proving that these programs have not changed.

Whooter · « **Reply #33 on:** October 03, 2010, 08:41:26 AM »

Quote from: "Shadyacres"

The program I was in was marketed as a "kinder, gentler" version of Straight Inc. As was Pathway and Kids Helping Kids. We now know that there was no appreciable difference in the treatment methodology. This is an old lie that this industry has been telling for a long time. The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.

Well I am not sure I completely agree with you. You can take a child and expose them to therapy against their will with the hope they will see the benefit in it and utilize it to their advantage. Maybe they will connect with their therapist and start to look forward to hie or her visits

Kids can be successfully forced to change their behavior in the hopes that they adopt it as a new routine. At first they may follow the new behavior out of fear of being punished but after awhile (when they do it long enough) it just becomes part of their makeup or routine. This is not inhumane or unethical at all. It is a natural process that we all go through.

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RobertBruce · « **Reply #34 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:54:34 AM »

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Well I am not sure I completely agree with you. You can take a child and expose them to therapy against their will with the hope they will see the benefit in it and utilize it to their advantage. Maybe they will connect with their therapist and start to look forward to hie or her visits

Kids can be successfully forced to change their behavior in the hopes that they adopt it as a new routine. At first they may follow the new behavior out of fear of being punished but after awhile (when they do it long enough) it just becomes part of their makeup or routine. This is not inhumane or unethical at all. It is a natural process that we all go through

We all go through coercive ineffective therapy that does not work? Please, detail your experience for us. After that please cite a source that verifies not only the abusive theraputic model that programs use is effective, but that when it's is forced it can still work. I'll be waiting.

Whooter · « **Reply #35 on:** October 03, 2010, 10:31:02 AM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

We all go through coercive ineffective therapy that does not work?

I read back and didnt see this mentioned. I was responding to this statement:

The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.

My post above outlines my argument that changing a childs' behavior without his/her consent can be done without the use of inhumane and unethical means.

For example take a child who is told he must start seeing a therapist. The child may resist at first but after a few sessions the child may connect with his/her therapist and actually enjoy and find benefit from therapy.

Take a child who is forced to attend school and sit in a class room and read. He may eventually find an interest or subject he likes, He may grow accustomed to the routine and start to attend school without being asked.

Take a child who is forced to make his bed each day bedfor he/she can leave their room in the morning. After several weeks the child may become accustomed to making his/her bed and do it automatically.

These same events can be accomplished utilizing unethical or inhumane methods. But they don't have to be, they can be accomplished as a natural progression of growing up and learning to adapt to certain behaviors. Just because they are forced upon the child doesn't make it inhumane or unethical.

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RobertBruce · « **Reply #36 on:** October 03, 2010, 10:39:02 AM »

My apologies for the confusion. I was reponding to this comment in particular:

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You can take a child and expose them to therapy against their will with the hope they will see the benefit in it and utilize it to their advantage.

Shadyacres · « **Reply #37 on:** October 03, 2010, 10:57:23 AM »

Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?

none-ya · « **Reply #38 on:** October 03, 2010, 11:01:44 AM »

Quote from: "Shadyacres"

Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?

Again , it all starts at home. WE NEED BETTER PARENTS. THAT'S HOW YOU GET BETTER KIDS!

RobertBruce · « **Reply #39 on:** October 03, 2010, 11:30:06 AM »

Quote

Again , it all starts at home. WE NEED BETTER PARENTS. THAT'S HOW YOU GET BETTER KIDS!

:tup:

DannyB II · « **Reply #40 on:** October 03, 2010, 12:34:16 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

Quote
That is not true at all Robert, posters have not flocked here to tell you the programs of the 2000's have not changed. It has been a minuscule amount of people who have come here to share in comparison to the amount of people who have gone through these programs.
Yes there have been abuses from ill-trained and rouge staff members and this is unacceptable but to say it is just like it has always been is another fabrication on your part.

Oh Danny, are you under some misguided impression that fornits is the only venue for abuse survivors to communicate? Your ignorance once again shines through. Even if it were the only venue the reports we have coming in are strikingly similar to the reports given from earlier decades. Thus proving that these programs have not changed.

No Robert, you are wrong again. Of course everyone knows fornits does not stand alone, there are many venues but they are still minuscule in comparison to the population of children that went through programs recently. They are not reporting the same abuses or complaints of years gone by.
Please this is what I have been saying all along, post the proper facts don't embellish.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #41 on:** October 03, 2010, 03:54:34 PM »

Embellish what Danny? Be specific son, what exactly are you asking?

DannyB II · « **Reply #42 on:** October 03, 2010, 04:00:27 PM »

Quote from: "RobertBruce"

Embellish what Danny? Be specific son, what exactly are you asking?

OK. How about 80% of what you write. Robert your acting like this is a new request most folks who enter into conversations with you end up asking you to stop embellishing.

RobertBruce · « **Reply #43 on:** October 03, 2010, 04:03:16 PM »

Embellishing what Danny? Youv'e got to be specific son. Post up a specific comment that I've made that you believe is an embellishment. Otherwise there isn't much to talk about and you're just bloviating.

Whooter · « **Reply #44 on:** October 03, 2010, 04:16:24 PM »

Quote from: "Shadyacres"

Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?

Thats an entirely different question, Shadyacres. But I was responding to this:

The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.

I felt I should address the inaccuracies as I saw them and post examples to support my thoughts.

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