Author Topic: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids  (Read 10563 times)

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Offline shaggys

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2010, 11:35:42 AM »
When I was in Straight inc I saw children forced to sleep in closets. Often times these were tiny apartment-style closets so the person would have to try to sleep sitting up cause there was not room to stretch out. Very uncomfortable and demeaning. This punishment led to further physical and mental exhaustion. It is my understanding that similar punishments are occuring in programs today.
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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2010, 12:04:42 PM »
No phone access and rotten food were easily identifiable signs of how little the programs actually cared about those children.  Not everyone can understand how LGAT treatment can be harmful, but everyone understands rotten food.  This is palpable, verifiable abuse, which is a serious threat to their bottom line.  I think the programs have now gotten smart enough to not leave themselves vulnerable in this area.  They now limit their abuse to the variety that you have to experience, or be a psychologist, to understand.  And it took me at least 20 years to be able to adequately put into words how abusive I felt this treatment was.  So when todays youth finally find their voices, will their experiences be considered invalid?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 12:32:38 PM by Shadyacres »

Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2010, 12:25:40 PM »
But back on the topic, when I was in LIFE it seemed like they would use any means available to break down the child's will.  The foster home where they housed me had lots of animals, dogs, cats and horses.  For some reason, I was the only person in the house who got bit by fleas.  Hundreds of flea bites, I was obviously unusually sensitive to them for some reason.  One might think that the program would have moved me to another house, one with no animals.  Instead, they kept me in that house for months.  I broke out in hives from stress, which they blamed on laundry detergent.  They told us not to pop the pimples we all had on our faces from lack of sunlight and they would get huge and painful.  They told us that popping pimples could give us brain damage, or kill us.  I am not kidding.  And of course the four point restraint on the benches and the five point restraint on the floor, both administered by other teens, are notoriously dangerous.  One night I refused to write a "moral inventory", nothing to write, same thing happens every day.  My punishment was no evening meal, which I accepted a little too easily I guess because my (fully grown adult) oldcomer decided that my shower that night would be ice cold.  I refused to take a shower so he just picked me up in my underwear and threw me into the cold shower.  That oldcomer was from El Paso, Texas.  I think he later helped "Dr." Newton set up "Kids of El Paso".  I'm sure he was one of the resident goons there too.
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2010, 12:42:12 PM »
I know during my incarceration at HLA whenever a parent or ed con day would come around the menu would suddenly drastically improve. When there weren't visitors rotten food was routine. Maybe Whooter John is basing his comments on his limited time actually spent visiting a program. All totaled it probably only comes out to a few days.
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Offline none-ya

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 01:03:06 PM »
All of that sounds like it  was right out of the seed. No phone calls whatsoever. Lived for months on stale PB&J sandwiches. No tv (not even the news).No reading anything at all.When you got back to you oldcommers house at night, it was more "rapping",and if you noddedoff you got a swat upside of your noggin.12 hours a day and if you were lucky, you'd get 1 trip to the bathroom a day.You had to learn how to hold it. I saw one kid piss his pants after asking over and over again to use the bathroom. After he pissed himself,instead of getting him cleaned up, they stood him up in group, yelled and screamed at him for trying to get attention. I think that one way stuff like that could not happen today, would be to do as they do in jail. Everything is video recorded 24/7 no blind spots anywhere. In the old days of the seed and straight conditions  varied from oldcommer to oldcommer. Remeber , you didn't live at the program 24 hours a day. Only 12. Some people had it easier than others. Some foster houses were living hell. I didn't last at home long enuogh at home to get my very own newcommer,(I had enough,and I split). But I know my parents would have spoilled them. At least they would have eatten better.These programs of yesterday and today have one thing in common, the bottom line. Spend as little as possible.
And it will always be the kids who suffer for it.
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 01:55:33 PM »
I has not been in a program in the 1980's. I was not in one yesterday.

I guess that they have changed to some extend due to the existense of the Internet. In the old days they could fly under the radar even if they were nationwide because the graduates could not find eachother. How many have shared their most valuable teenage years with a peer group only to be shipped home without notice and without access to an aftercare group with knowledge of what is needed when graduates are meeting the real world again? Who could they reflect their experiences with? How were they supposed to see the big picture if that was the goal at all? It did include a higher risk of people reversing back into the same problems they faced before the program and with the extra risk of having to battle PTSD also. Was there an increased suicide risk? Yes, of course.

Today it is different. The program can deny the teenagers to name their hometown, but once they are home they can find some from their peer group in seconds on various community networks. Unanswered questions can be answered.

For the program the existence of the Internet means increased challenges. Parents who seek residential options can read what former participants write. In some cases they can find critical information on the Internet and of course they can find the Fornits wiki. In the old days it was different. It was shameful to have troubled teenagers and the newly introduced 3-strike laws, the new-started war against drugs and 21 year rule in relationship with alcohol meant fear among parents. The programs operated by mouth-to-mouth method combined with referral fees if you as parent could convince someone in your family or town that a program was good for their so-called troubled teenager.

They have to use a lot of ressources to defend their program or ignore it and continue with a lower enrollment . Look at a program like the Family Foundation School. They have started a blog defending their program. They acknowledge that their program was not quiet developed in the right way when they conducted a full scale test over a ten year or more period. Of course they state that they now are so much better. It is a question whether the parents believe them, but they are no longer talking of a second campus so maybe they have a long way to go before there are so many graduates out there that the general criticism die out.
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Offline shaggys

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2010, 04:14:43 PM »
Admins please ask Whooter to stop derailing this thread with his BS. I have never asked for any consideration here whatsoever but this shit is getting crazy. This individual is as skilled a liar and manipulator as you will ever find anywhere. He is being allowed to trash this forum at will and I do not appreciate it. The topic here has been clearly stated. We are discussing abuse in treatment programs. I would expect the posts to be on topic or get deleted. thank you.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2010, 04:17:05 PM »
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I know during my incarceration at HLA whenever a parent or ed con day would come around the menu would suddenly drastically improve. When there weren't visitors rotten food was routine. Maybe Whooter John is basing his comments on his limited time actually spent visiting a program. All totaled it probably only comes out to a few days.

Robert you are sadly mistaken or misspoken, I am sorry but this is the bottom line, I personally know folks that went through the program from many different years and that was never one of there problems. Like I said you have someone right here who knows HLA very well from a periphery position.
Please keep to the facts of abuse, HLA has enough of them without any need of embellishment.
HLA, had plenty of problems, especially with Buchi.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 05:52:57 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2010, 05:06:23 PM »
Actually I thought I was posting in the "Public school abuse thread"  and responding to Joel who I thought was posting off topic  (It turns out it was me)  .... my apologies.  I will delete my post.

Just for future reference if there is a rule violation, psy indicated that you can use the reporting process or email him directly instead of derailing a thread.  Joel and Shaggys there is no need to muck up the thread with warnings and/or starting a fight.

I am trying to live by and adjust to the new rules and I made a mistake.  Sorry.



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Offline shaggys

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2010, 05:18:51 PM »
There is a kid age 17 that comes in my business here agood bit. I have got to know him pretty well now. Lets call him Chip. About a year ago Chip got into a bad crowd at school. Started puffin some weed with his baseball buddies and being rebellious with his parents. Pretty mild stuff really. He disapeared for about 6 months and showed back up saying he had attended a "survival program". He is now convinced that he is a drug addict and is currently relapsing. This kid Did Not have an addiction issue before he went away but he sure believes he has one now. I think it is abusive to brainwash a young person into believeing that they are a lifelong drug addict. It is very abusive.
I am going to find out which one of these "survival schools" Chip got sent to. I will keep you updated.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2010, 06:01:52 PM »
Quote from: "shaggys"
There is a kid age 17 that comes in my business here agood bit. I have got to know him pretty well now. Lets call him Chip. About a year ago Chip got into a bad crowd at school. Started puffin some weed with his baseball buddies and being rebellious with his parents. Pretty mild stuff really. He disapeared for about 6 months and showed back up saying he had attended a "survival program". He is now convinced that he is a drug addict and is currently relapsing. This kid Did Not have an addiction issue before he went away but he sure believes he has one now. I think it is abusive to brainwash a young person into believeing that they are a lifelong drug addict. It is very abusive.
I am going to find out which one of these "survival schools" Chip got sent to. I will keep you updated.

Geesh, Shaggys, How do you know that this kid underwent brainwashing?  Do you know what it takes to be truly brainwashed?  Did this boy undergo complete isolation with a complete dependency on one person who controlled his every action for 6 months?  Did he live in complete fear during this time?  Was his identity completely broken down to the point that he wasnt himself anymore and was replaced with a new identity?

It could be that these survival people are so down to earth that they believe a person should not be a slave to anything except surviving and utilizing only what a person truly needs.  He lived in a bubble for 6 months and now he wants to smoke pot again.  He looked up to these guys who taught him things like he doesnt need to put anything in his body except nutrition to survive.  They may have told him he should not become addictive to donuts, drugs and fast-food.

He is just a kid.  They tend to take things very seriously sometimes.  Just a thought.



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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2010, 06:05:16 PM »
Quote from: "shaggys"
There is a kid age 17 that comes in my business here agood bit. I have got to know him pretty well now. Lets call him Chip. About a year ago Chip got into a bad crowd at school. Started puffin some weed with his baseball buddies and being rebellious with his parents. Pretty mild stuff really. He disapeared for about 6 months and showed back up saying he had attended a "survival program". He is now convinced that he is a drug addict and is currently relapsing. This kid Did Not have an addiction issue before he went away but he sure believes he has one now. I think it is abusive to brainwash a young person into believeing that they are a lifelong drug addict. It is very abusive.
I am going to find out which one of these "survival schools" Chip got sent to. I will keep you updated.

I would think we would need a whole lot more information then "Chip" coming into your place where you work and you having a psuedo relationship with him, then making a analysis of whether Chip has a problem and if he needed treatment.
No one is a life long drug addict (your words) he may have been told he had a problem with drugs. Being sent away for six months to learn about the bad affects of drugs is not exactly abuse. IMO
Six month program is also not abuse...if you compare to how long we went.
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Offline shaggys

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2010, 06:35:36 PM »
When i was in Straight inc kids were confronted with verbal abuse of the harshest stuff imaginable. These confrontations would sometimes continue for hours. Inmates were forced to participate in the verbal assaults of other inmates. This activity was always directed by staff members. It is my understanding that these same methods are still being used in many teen treatment centers today.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2010, 06:52:22 PM »
Quote from: "shaggys"
When i was in Straight inc kids were confronted with verbal abuse of the harshest stuff imaginable. These confrontations would sometimes continue for hours. Inmates were forced to participate in the verbal assaults of other inmates. This activity was always directed by staff members. It is my understanding that these same methods are still being used in many teen treatment centers today.

That is terrible,  Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today.  There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program.  I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs.



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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Many Many Programs Abuse Kids
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2010, 08:06:18 PM »
Quote
That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs

It's the same reason posters from the 90's and 2000's have the same view of the program. It's not negative John, it's honest. Nothing has changed, the same stuff happens. These places are all abusive. You only highlight your ignorance by avoiding the truth on these things you make money off of. You only further highlight that people who work in this industry like yourself don't care about how much kids are abused, just so long as they show up with a check.
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