First teacher - then bartender and now singer

[Ursus]

Great find, Guys.  What a fantastic exposure for kids at risk.  She really sounds like and independent self starter and great role model for those children.

Well, you would know all about that now, wouldn't you, Whooter? After all, she was featured not too minimally in your friend Dave Marcus' book, What it takes to pull me through. Gotta say, a 22-year-old anorexic fresh outta college still having "slip-ups," leading Group for girls with eating disorders, sounds about right for Academy at Swift River...

People slipup their whole lives it doesn’t mean they deserve to be fired or should be denied a job.  She was starting out in life and had a great deal to share with kids.

Why do you always have to point out peoples’ shortcomings and run them down just because they enjoy helping kids and happen to take a job working with at-risk youths?  Have a little compassion; why not point out some of the peoples’ better qualities for a change.

Why not point out that she won a grammy or works with special needs students?  Graduated 8th in her class etc.

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Was this thread supposed to be about "The Gennarose Show?" Gee, you're right, she really does sound like a neat person. Oh, heck, I hope she has a wonderful life and I wish her the best of luck!

But... I believe you have misunderstood me, Whooter. My concern has not to do with Ms. Gennarose Domenica Pope and her life's trials and tribulations, but with the Academy at Swift River, and their professional judgment, or lack thereof, in fulfilling their responsibilities towards students and their parents. I would think that said consumers have a right to expect that ASR hires professionals with a level of maturity sufficient for such a job, eh? After all, ASR markets itself as behavioral health professionals ... right?

Then why the anorexia comments and pointing out that she put the word "discipline" on her resume.  You are not being honest, Ursus.

You haven't pointed out why she should not have been hired and/or how ASR mislead anyone.  All the parents have access to the qualifications of the staff and teachers.  How many teachers do you know that start teaching with 10 years of experience?  Its impossible.  So you think she should have started in the public sector first and subjected public school kids to her slip ups?  I dont see how that would be anymore acceptable.

The concern about Ms. Pope's anorexia is completely relevant. Do you put an alcoholic who keeps falling off the wagon in charge of counseling sobriety to other alcoholics? Let alone teen-aged alcoholics? Who can spot the slip-ups in a heartbeat?

Ms. Pope was quite young for such a job, in more ways than one. Putting her in a position of such authority and with such responsibility was almost as unfair to her, as it was to the students looking up to her for guidance and direction. She was so young, in fact, that Rudy Bentz mistook her for a student the first time he saw her in the cafeteria, according to Marcus' book.

[Ursus]

Such a young person can be a good teacher, but the teenagers at Academy at Swift River are no ordinary kids. They have special needs and they have questions about life the kids at my sons classes doesn't. Questions and reflections which need life experience to answer correctly. I have read the book. She gave a lot but between the lines it is hinted that she burned out.

I don't know how fast the staffing is changing at Academy at Swift River, but if they choose to hire such young people, it will be fast.

I fully agree, Oscar. Very good point re. the maturity and life experience needed for dealing with the student profile ASR claims to cater to.

[Whooter]

The concern about Ms. Pope's anorexia is completely relevant. Do you put an alcoholic who keeps falling off the wagon in charge of counseling sobriety to other alcoholics? Let alone teen-aged alcoholics? Who can spot the slip-ups in a heartbeat?

Ms. Pope was quite young for such a job, in more ways than one. Putting her in a position of such authority and with such responsibility was almost as unfair to her, as it was to the students looking up to her for guidance and direction. She was so young, in fact, that Rudy Bentz mistook her for a student the first time he saw her in the cafeteria, according to Marcus' book.

I just dont think you or I should judge from way over here.  I think an alcoholic would be the most favorable candidate to be in charge of sobriety.  He would understand the struggles involved, understand and accept failure and help them to succeed.  He would know the signs of when a person was going to fall, offer first hand experience.   A person who never drank or only read about alcoholism would be less effective in my opinion.

Maybe she was too young, but there are many people who are too old and cant relate. There are those who are just right but turn out to be pedophiles.  Personally I think she was a good choice, she was understanding and compassionate and did a lot to help the kids grow.  Thats what really counts in my opinion.



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[Whooter]

You asked this to Ursus, but let me answer this question.

My son has a 21 year old teacher in religion and math. because the math. teacher is ill. She is a good teacher. She because a substitute teacher when she left high school and we are talking form 0 with 20 kids aged 7-9 in the class. One of the students are her sister, so when we parents met in class a month ago, her parents were present as parents to her sister. It could cause some problems but it doesn't. She is professional even when she is teaching her own sister.

Such a young person can be a good teacher, but the teenagers at Academy at Swift River are no ordinary kids. They have special needs and they have questions about life the kids at my sons classes doesn't. Questions and reflections which need life experience to answer correctly. I have read the book. She gave a lot but between the lines it is hinted that she burned out.

I don't know how fast the staffing is changing at Academy at Swift River, but if they choose to hire such young people, it will be fast.

Thanks for the response Oscar.

Turnover is high in most of these places because of burn out.  It is a very tough job..  very tough… very frustrating to work with these types of kids.  There are only so many years and months of patience that people have to offer.

But back to the teacher.   Most of these kids were not doing any academic work at all.  So getting them to sit in class all day and study was a monumental task which couldn’t be done at home.  I was relieved that the staff and teachers were all young because the kids could relate to them much better and are more apt to open up.  I don’t think a 60 year old schoolmarm welding a paddle would be very effective on the kids at Swift River.  Telling them life stories of when she was their age.  <Yawn>.

The key is to get the kids interested in something they can succeed at to build up their self esteem and get them to the point where they are self motivated.  Successful young people can do this better then older people with more experience (with this type of group).

There are risks involved in hiring younger less experienced people but they don’t outweigh hiring people the kids cannot relate to.



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[Oz girl]

Oscar i assume this is gennarose from what it takes to pull me through. If I remember correctly the book said she left claiming the only good thing about the place was the kids. This along with the extremely lax attitude to a suicide attempt, The eventual sucessful suicide of another student from the group, The expolsion for oding on drugs of another and practices like leaving one student to supervise the bathroom visits of an anorexic girl that she actively disliked as well as the grandiose hysterics of the egotistical headmaster should have been enough to send any sane person running a mile from the school!

[Whooter]

Oscar i assume this is gennarose from what it takes to pull me through. If I remember correctly the book said she left claiming the only good thing about the place was the kids. This along with the extremely lax attitude to a suicide attempt, The eventual sucessful suicide of another student from the group, The expolsion for oding on drugs of another and practices like leaving one student to supervise the bathroom visits of an anorexic girl that she actively disliked as well as the grandiose hysterics of the egotistical headmaster should have been enough to send any sane person running a mile from the school!

You should look at the book again, Oz,  she never stated all of that.



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[Eliscu2]

Oscar i assume this is gennarose from what it takes to pull me through. If I remember correctly the book said she left claiming the only good thing about the place was the kids. This along with the extremely lax attitude to a suicide attempt, The eventual successful suicide of another student from the group, The explosion for oding on drugs of another and practices like leaving one student to supervise the bathroom visits of an anorexic girl that she actively disliked as well as the grandiose hysterics of the egotistical headmaster should have been enough to send any sane person running a mile from the school!

An extreme lax attitude for a suicide attempt can be developed over time.

[Oz girl]

she did state upon leaving that the only good thing about the place was the kids. The book also featured all of those things and worse while also talking the place up. you are full of shit whooter

[Whooter]

she did state upon leaving that the only good thing about the place was the kids. The book also featured all of those things and worse while also talking the place up. you are full of shit whooter

Hey, OZ that is a little harsh.

Look , OZ, I read the book and he never referred to the head master as "grandiose hysterics of the egotistical headmaster"  lol.  I mean the Marcus had a sense of humor and if he did write it I may agree with him.  but it wasnt in the book.

Back to the topic,  I think we all know that there are many reasons people leave a job.

Let me take the Ursus approach if I may for a second:

This teacher had an interest in “conversational Spanish” and ASR took these kids to Cost Rica just before graduation for 6 weeks.  It was paradise, the kids loved it, the staff loved it (because the kids had overcome all their obstacles and were excited about upcoming graduation) so they were a breeze to deal with vs the kids first weeks.
This teacher would just love to join these kids in Costa Rica for that time period and was just chomping at the bit to go but was never invited to go, she was always rejected for some reason, maybe she didn’t have seniority.  I think we can see that there could easily have been some sour grapes which led to that comment....  she is a good teacher but she wanted to go to Cost Rica like everyone else and utilize her "conversational Spanish",  why didnt ASR utilize her and her knowledge and make her the Cost Rica ambassador?  See what I mean?

If an employee left Microsoft and said the software sucks we could conclude that maybe it does or maybe its because he was being pushed out or didnt get the money he wanted or is pissed off because they just made it a no smoking workplace.  If you spend some time working with people in business you will begin to understand the comments a little more as these people exit their jobs and be able to put them in context.



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[Gdomenica13]

Well hello there.  I must say I find this (over) argued and out-of-context discussion of my two year career at the Academy at Swift River fascinating.

A few questions:

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps a book written about one's extraordinarily deep and intense experience by a non-industry journalist may be just a bit misrepresentational or over-played via poetic license?

Or that making character/performance judgments based on my resumes (which my brother posted and mis-typed) and a mental health issue I dealt with may be a bit irresponsible?

Or that using these resulting erroneous and under-researched conclusions may be an inaccurate way to judge an entire department/academy?

Do you know that I still keep in contact with around 60 former students whose lives were fundamentally changed for the better at ASR because of some of their incredible, intuitive, empathetic, skilled, hard-working and dedicated (yes, these qualities can in fact exist in "them younger folk") and who are doing wonderfully in their lives?

And is the title of this post ("First teacher-then bartender and now singer") meant as a negative indication of character?

Try and be a little more careful when judgmentally and seemingly so in-depthly discussing a person or establishment you know, in reality, very little about.

And by the way, I much enjoy my own use of the word "discipline" in my resume.  If you've ever been in the restaurant world you know that the word is important and, as one of you mentioned, an indicator that one knows the workings of it well.

Good luck.  I'm sure you're both excellent people.

[seamus]

I do believe that she had the interests of the kids in her heart and she intended to do her best for them. I also believed that the work broke her down. The book which I borrowed led me to this conclusion. I believe that a lot of young people enter this business with a pure heart and they leave it when they discover that the kids are numbers for the accountants and owners.

                              boy, you got that right :nods: ,or leave when the truth is found to be lies :nods:

[Whooter]

Any job working with kids can be challenging that is why the public schools offered tenure as a way to try to keep teachers from leaving after a few years.  Now imagine having to deal with at-risk teens full time with no real monetary incentive to make a career out of it.  I think we can all see that this is a formula for a high turn over rate and staff getting burned out after a couple of years.  One of the few rewards, as gdomenica13 pointed out, is the gratification of watching these kids grow and move on.  I think it is great that he/she still keeps in contact with all her past students.



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[Dysfunction Junction]

Great find, Guys.  What a fantastic exposure for kids at risk.  She really sounds like and independent self starter and great role model for those children.

Well, you would know all about that now, wouldn't you, Whooter? After all, she was featured not too minimally in your friend Dave Marcus' book, What it takes to pull me through. Gotta say, a 22-year-old anorexic fresh outta college still having "slip-ups," leading Group for girls with eating disorders, sounds about right for Academy at Swift River...

Excellent point, Ursus.  Her hiring is very similar to those of many convicted felons who work at programs because the program believes the "life experience" is enough to be a "counselor" of "troubled teens."  People should know that programs intentionally seek out this type of employee.

Personally, I believe this is so when one of these employees reports abuse, they have a ready-made denial prepared.  "But she's a felon.  You can't believe a felon!"  Even though that felon was in direct control of children for months or years at their program.  That's how HLA operated and its employees founded ASR.  Interesting matrix, no?

I also noticed quite a few holes in that resume.  Interesting indeed.

[Ursus]

...I think it is great that he/she still keeps in contact with all her past students.

 :rofl:  Aren't you trying a lil too hard to feign ignorance as to how/why Gdomenica13 just happened to come across this thread, Whooter?

At least she has a sense of humor 'bout it all:

Greetings from the disciplining anorexic

[Dysfunction Junction]

Does Academy Student Reprimands have licensed nutritionists to work with anorexic children?

There appear to be none on staff.  It looks like ASR just hires someone with the same illness to "treat" the kids.  I'm sure she gave those kids lots of "tips" about how to hide anorexic behaviors by "telling her story" to them.