Author Topic: Have Programs Changed?  (Read 1650 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Have Programs Changed?
« on: September 27, 2010, 04:42:04 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

I don't have to imagine it.....I've lived it as a parent.  'Cept it was two daughters, not sons and amazingly the "troubled" one made it through adolescence without being shipped off to strangers to be subjected to LGAT pseudo-psycho babble re-education bullshit which can only serve to make those troubles worse due to the humiliation/attack "therapy" they use.

Like the majority of families your kids responded to local services, family help and didnt need the services provided outside the community.  Many families have kids who do not respond well to local options and family intervention and need to seek residential treatment.

Mmmm hmmm.  I was supposed to be long dead by now, but I'm still here.  And along those same lines, the grandparents filled out one of those "online assessments" that programs are so fond of and, shockingly, they were told that my daughter would be deadinsaneorinjail soon if they didn't promptly enroll her in their program.  Yeah, that never came true either, but it didn't stop the programs from trying to capitalize on the grandparents fears.

Look, Anne, I am sorry that you are stuck viewing the whole industry through your narrow experience of straight some 30/40 years ago.  The place is long gone, programs have changed.  My grandparents, parents didnt have to fill out assessments on my kids, my daughter didnt get rotten food or have to live with oldcomers or flap their arms on blue chairs, vomit on floors, spit blood and crap in their pants, get locked into hobbits or dog cages or abused with mop handles... etc. etc.

The program my daughter went to doesnt even resemble what you experienced.  They served, vegetarian, vegan and continental food, no fences or brutal punishments etc.    You either dont listen or dont read very much but the industry has changed.  Some parts have stayed the same and should be improved but it has evolved.  You are grown up now and it is 2010.  Lets focus on what programs are offering today.
We are all glad your daughter didnt have to go to a program.  Thats a good thing.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 06:00:00 PM »
You keep saying that & I keep reading current accounts of programs that are strikingly similar to how Straight operated.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 06:18:59 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
You keep saying that & I keep reading current accounts of programs that are strikingly similar to how Straight operated.

There is always going to be similarities, Anne, but you can also chose to recognize the differences in the programs of today and those when you attended.  You just chose not to comment on or recognize them.  So people like myself point it out.

I could look at the cars built in the 1940's and those of today and say  "Look people are still dying in auto accidents, they have 4 wheels and a windshield  etc." so nothing has changed.  It is a good argument.  But if you take a closer look at todays cars auto safety has improved and this fact should be recognized.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (general discussion)
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 10:20:50 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
No, I'm right. Parents only turn to these places because they're afraid, naive and desperate, or because they are stupid, lazy and bad parents.

A market never needs an ineffective abusive industry. It just tolerates ones that can temporarily get away with it.

Robert, I really do not like repeating myself, please refrain from being argumentative. OK. Now I said, NO!!!!!! Parents seek out these places on their own for their reasons.


Nope. You're wrong, I'm right. Parents seek out these places because they are uninformed or are stupid and don't care. A parent who places their child in one of these places either doesn't know what the situation is, and thinks they are doing the right thing, or they're like Whooter John over here who knows exactly what the situation is, but is a borderline sociopath and enjoys locking his kids away.

These places are like the crooked mechanic shop in town that is constantly listed under a different name and always seems to display a sign that says, "Under New Management!" The reason being that they have to constantly try and hide from their own record. Eventually though like all things, the truth comes out, exposes are done, and legislation and lawsuits shuts these places down. It's already well on its way down. You two should accept it and find a new vocation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: Have Programs Changed?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 12:57:25 PM »
Let's roll back to the 70s at CEDU, where they had propheets.  in these propheets there were skits.  Fast forward to CEDU's projeny like Benchmark where those same workshops exist.  The same at Aspen, where they have LifeSteps.  It's the same stuff, just different names.  "Raps" become "group", Propheets become seminars and workshops.  "Bans" becomes "non-com".  Very little actual content or structure has changed.  I know this because i've talked to people who were at CEDU way back in the day and they describe pretty much the same thing we're hearing out of places like MBA as well as my own experiences.  Straight begat PFC, KHK, AARC, Growing Together, Life, and so on.  Very little changed there.  Sure some places stopped "motivating" (wildly shaking hands in the air), but most of the core of it, including the really abusive stuff remained.

There is simply no incentive for programs to change.  They have system way that works for them and there is no reason they would consider doing it differently. As far as the staff, and even some program directors, are concerned, they have the one true way to help kids and everybody else just doesn't understand.  They rationalize by saying "the parents wouldn't understand if they knew" or "the authorities wouldn't understand, this is the way it needs to be done".  They have had decades to polish the con, even though very few (mostly program directors) would actually see it as that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Have Programs Changed?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 01:00:02 PM »
Of course programs change. I know at the program I was at, it got progressively better the more time went on. They see what the criticism are of the program, and they fix it. They are in business which means they must adapt to the demands of the market or perish, in this case the demand comes from parents. Parents want their kids kept safe, so programs will work hard to keep them safe. I believe there is more danger in state run programs because nobody cares about improving, because the kids get sent there no matter what and nobody is going to lose their job. Programs have a real financial interest in improving their programs, and so they do. Wilderness programs did not exist and yet now they are very popular, that's change in action.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: Have Programs Changed?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 01:04:24 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Of course programs change. I know at the program I was at, it got progressively better the more time went on. They see what the criticism are of the program, and they fix it. They are in business which means they must adapt to the demands of the market or perish, in this case the demand comes from parents. Parents want their kids kept safe, so programs will work hard to keep them safe. I believe there is more danger in state run programs because nobody cares about improving, because the kids get sent there no matter what and nobody is going to lose their job. Programs have a real financial interest in improving their programs, and so they do. Wilderness programs did not exist and yet now they are very popular, that's change in action.
So you were never placed in the Hobbit?  Yes or no question.  Very simple.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Joel

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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 02:13:52 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 01:56:37 PM by Joel »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 02:36:52 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
You keep saying that & I keep reading current accounts of programs that are strikingly similar to how Straight operated.

There is always going to be similarities, Anne, but you can also chose to recognize the differences in the programs of today and those when you attended.  You just chose not to comment on or recognize them.  So people like myself point it out.


There are always going to be differences, Whooter, but you can also choose (chose is past tense, choose is present) to recognize the similarities in the programs of today and those when your son(s) attended.  You just choose not to comment on or recognize them.  So people like myself point it out.

It works both ways.  :twofinger:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa