Author Topic: Dead, insane, or in jail (general discussion)  (Read 14163 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (general discussion)
« Reply #150 on: September 27, 2010, 11:01:03 AM »
From a parents perspective I knew there was a problem long before I ever heard of the TTI.  I was actively seeking solutions and working with local services.  This was the case with the other parents I had spoken to also.  Many used Education consultants to find the appropriate placement.

The marketing, as I have seen it, was to tout the individual programs strengths, not to convince parents their kid had a problem when they did not.

I think what would have been helpful to me was if there existed a web site which had information on various programs so that you could avoid the bad ones and make an informed choice without relying on an EdCon.  I am surprised no one has developed a site like this yet.

Personally I would like to spend time going through the information at my own pace, on-line, rather than speaking to and relying on an Edcon who may be motivated by a kickback from specific programs.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #151 on: September 27, 2010, 11:08:49 AM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
It seems to me that those programs have gotten more abusive, not less.  LIFE was horrible, but they didn't have a hobbit, they never left us in dog cages for a week.  According to you Max, it is apparently impossible to be a bad or irresponsible parent.  This industry is indeed one big con job, jails institutions and death is just one small part of how they convince parents that hating their kids is the best thing for everyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe the hobbit and dog cages are long gone.  In my case I never needed convincing that there was a problem with my daughter.  I had been working with local services.  The other parents I had spoken to didnt need convincing that their kid would be DIJ either.
What may have occurred is this was used in a meeting or one or two programs and is now being talked about like it was a standard phrase because I never heard of it used in programs until I came to fornits.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #152 on: September 27, 2010, 11:33:29 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
It seems to me that those programs have gotten more abusive, not less.  LIFE was horrible, but they didn't have a hobbit, they never left us in dog cages for a week.  According to you Max, it is apparently impossible to be a bad or irresponsible parent.  This industry is indeed one big con job, jails institutions and death is just one small part of how they convince parents that hating their kids is the best thing for everyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe the hobbit and dog cages are long gone.  In my case I never needed convincing that there was a problem with my daughter.  I had been working with local services.  The other parents I had spoken to didnt need convincing that their kid would be DIJ either.
What may have occurred is this was used in a meeting or one or two programs and is now being talked about like it was a standard phrase because I never heard of it used in programs until I came to fornits.



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Long gone?    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8VLEHQm ... re=related
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #153 on: September 27, 2010, 11:55:56 AM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
It seems to me that those programs have gotten more abusive, not less.  LIFE was horrible, but they didn't have a hobbit, they never left us in dog cages for a week.  According to you Max, it is apparently impossible to be a bad or irresponsible parent.  This industry is indeed one big con job, jails institutions and death is just one small part of how they convince parents that hating their kids is the best thing for everyone.

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe the hobbit and dog cages are long gone.  In my case I never needed convincing that there was a problem with my daughter.  I had been working with local services.  The other parents I had spoken to didnt need convincing that their kid would be DIJ either.
What may have occurred is this was used in a meeting or one or two programs and is now being talked about like it was a standard phrase because I never heard of it used in programs until I came to fornits.



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Long gone?  

Although disturbing there was no mention of dog cages or Hobbits being used.  It appears that the number of WWASP programs has dwindled and many have closed.  So, as an industry, they are moving in the right direction.

Its important to keep getting this information out there so that these places will be forced to change or close down and leave room for the better programs to grow and flourish.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #154 on: September 27, 2010, 12:07:18 PM »
Well, no hobbits in the video, but the "punishment cages" are in plain view.  At least a half dozen of them adjacent to the "lap track".
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #155 on: September 27, 2010, 12:46:26 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
Well, no hobbits in the video, but the "punishment cages" are in plain view.  At least a half dozen of them adjacent to the "lap track".

Yes, but my point was that the Hobbit and dog cages were long gone.  They may have "Punishment holding areas",  but this has to be better than restraints or locked rooms, wouldnt you agree?   If a kid starts hitting and fighting with others they need to be separated from them to prevent harm to others and to themselves.  I dont think many people would object to this even here on fornits.



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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #156 on: September 27, 2010, 01:51:29 PM »
...[shakes head in disgust and walks away].
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #157 on: September 27, 2010, 02:07:27 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
...[shakes head in disgust and walks away].

Sorry, but I just am not a fan of violence whether self inflicted or not.  The kids need to be protected.  I know that many here feel the best thing to do is just let them fend for themselves and they will eventually get through it, but kids can get hurt or even killed if someone doesn't step in and intervene.



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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (terminology)
« Reply #158 on: September 27, 2010, 02:39:10 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Frankly, I don't see how the practices in my program would be helpful to any challenging child. I simply don't believe an atmosphere of emotional abuse, LGAT attack modalities, and insularity and fraud can behelpful. Whether or not a kid is innocent according to the definition of innocence set by Maxi or O5 is irrelevent. An atmosphere that lacks transparency, accountability, or therapeutic integrity is not acceptable for ANY child.

And again... what about the parents? I mean, they ain't "innocent" either. Some parents or home environments were more "challenging" than others, but I don't see them rushing off to rehab themselves.

PS. Straight A's and Captain ship only mean you are book smart and possibly work hard. I knew a lot of staright A kids who were lying klepto assholes from hell and kids who were not so hot in school who were by FAR better people.

I also knew kids who were ambushed an transported who never raised a hand to anyone. That is a serious betrayal. If my parents did that to me, I would think they were cowards, wimps, and liars. I would never trust them again.

 :tup:  :tup:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail
« Reply #159 on: September 27, 2010, 02:40:30 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
What would motivate a parent to send their kid to a behavior program that costs thousands of dollars a month, for no reason at all? What about hundreds, or even thousands of parents, what is their motivation to keep programs in business with kids who are completely normal and doing well at home?

Exactly what this thread is about.....fearmongering of programs screaming that their kids will DIE without them.  Pay attention.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail
« Reply #160 on: September 27, 2010, 02:42:32 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Programs exist because parents want them

Parents have been preyed upon by programs and duped into believing that their kids are going to DIE if they don't send them off for re-education and thought reform.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail
« Reply #161 on: September 27, 2010, 02:52:45 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Programs exist because parents want them

Parents have been preyed upon by programs and duped into believing that their kids are going to DIE if they don't send them off for re-education and thought reform.

This is an incorrect assessment of the structure of the troubled teen industry. Parents seek the help of programs, and that is why they existed. Programs do not create a false demand, it's already there. That's why there are so many programs open for business. But I know this is all part of the fornits narrative, and I know many people here believe it. But if you talked to people outside fornits, you'd realize this is not true. I suggest you go read forums where parents seeking programs post, and then tell me these are parents who are being scammed.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail
« Reply #162 on: September 27, 2010, 02:59:36 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
This is an incorrect assessment of the structure of the troubled teen industry. Parents seek the help of programs, and that is why they existed. Programs do not create a false demand, it's already there. That's why there are so many programs open for business. But I know this is all part of the fornits narrative, and I know many people here believe it. But if you talked to people outside fornits, you'd realize this is not true. I suggest you go read forums where parents seeking programs post, and then tell me these are parents who are being scammed.


Ok, I did as you suggested.  

These are parents who are being scammed.


Anything else I can help you out with?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #163 on: September 27, 2010, 03:02:20 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
It seems to me that those programs have gotten more abusive, not less.  LIFE was horrible, but they didn't have a hobbit, they never left us in dog cages for a week.  According to you Max, it is apparently impossible to be a bad or irresponsible parent.  This industry is indeed one big con job, jails institutions and death is just one small part of how they convince parents that hating their kids is the best thing for everyone.

If programs did not exist, parents of troubled teens would organize online and end up creating their own. The demand is there, that is why programs exist. According to fornits no parent would think of sending a kid to a behavior program, then a cold calling program marketer calls them and cons them into sending their perfect child away, all to make money. In my own experience this does not come close to accurately describing how this industry is structured. The demand comes from parents, and programs compete to fulfill that demand.

I was put in isolation in the program as you describe, yet I don't consider it abuse. It was clearly explained the rules when we arrived, and if you broke certain rules, like harming yourself in particular you were placed in isolation and staff watched you all the time, because you proved to them you couldn't handle what little freedom you had in the program. There are isolation rooms in psychiatric hospitals, run by the "professionals" and regulated by the state.. They exist for a reason, and as someone who has experienced it I know it's not very pleasant, but that's the point. It motivates you to behave in a way that will prevent you from being placed in it again. That's the essence of behavior modification, and guess what, it usually works.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Dead, insane, or in jail (recovering from low expectatio
« Reply #164 on: September 27, 2010, 03:08:07 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
The demand is there, that is why programs exist.


No doubt the demand is there now.....it's been carefully crafted and marketed by the TTI.  The TTI created the demand.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa