Dead, insane, or in jail (general discussion)

[Maximilian]

But... but... but... I was innocent. I swear!

[Whooter]

But... but... but... I was innocent. I swear!

Okay mister Bruce we will let you out early from HLA as long as you stop threatening to send more emails to my wife.  lol



...

[Maximilian]

It's true! I was a straight A student, and captain of the debate team, and never did anything wrong. Then one day my parents gave me a ride to the airport and said I was going to summer camp. When I got picked up by two burly men, they took me to a program and there my soul was destroyed and I left a program robot. Now I can't work and am on disability for the brainwashing, and use drugs all day long because I was permanently damaged in the five thousand dollar a month treatment center my parents sent me to fifteen years ago.

[Whooter]

Geeesh,  Its so obvious that it is the parents who have all the problems, why don’t people see this?  You shouldn’t blame yourself, its extremely clear that your parents lacked parenting skills.  I bet after they placed you they took a trip around the world to celebrate the relief they had from parenting you.  I heard almost every parent does this.
So if two burly men picked you up at the airport then that is clearly kidnapping.  They could have easily hired men of normal weight and strength but they didn’t , they hired “burly men” so they were intentionally trying to be abusive.

Give it another few years and maybe your parents and the program will apologize to you for their actions.

[psy]

It's true! I was a straight A student, and captain of the debate team, and never did anything wrong. Then one day my parents gave me a ride to the airport and said I was going to summer camp. When I got picked up by two burly men, they took me to a program and there my soul was destroyed and I left a program robot. Now I can't work and am on disability for the brainwashing, and use drugs all day long because I was permanently damaged in the five thousand dollar a month treatment center my parents sent me to fifteen years ago.

You mock.  So you don't think there are innocent people who get sent to these places?  You don't think there are any who are telling the truth?  You don't think that there is anybody out there for who the whole experimental cult crap didn't mix well?  I guess what i'm asking is whether you think we're all liars in denial, or just the majority of us?

Sure some might be lying, but the details of their stories often makes such things hard to lie about.  If one kid describes being forced to, for example, give a lapdance in a french maid's outfit, and another person several years later who had never head of the first girl reports the same exact thing, and other students confirm the story, it's even less likely.  Because we know at this point the program will lie, it's worth hearing the kid's story out, especially if it is confirmed by so many else.  There are no secrets in program.

[Froderik]

The average asshole on the street is insane...and so am I!

But a program never solved anything, certainly not in my case.

[Samara]

Frankly, I don't see how the practices in my program would be helpful to any challenging child. I simply don't believe an atmosphere of emotional abuse, LGAT attack modalities, and insularity and fraud can behelpful. Whether or not a kid is innocent according to the definition of innocence set by Maxi or O5 is irrelevent. An atmosphere that lacks transparency, accountability, or therapeutic integrity is not acceptable for ANY child.

And again... what about the parents? I mean, they ain't "innocent" either. Some parents or home environments were more "challenging" than others, but I don't see them rushing off to rehab themselves.

PS. Straight A's and Captain ship only mean you are book smart and possibly work hard. I knew a lot of staright A kids who were lying klepto assholes from hell and kids who were not so hot in school who were by FAR better people.

I also knew kids who were ambushed an transported who never raised a hand to anyone. That is a serious betrayal. If my parents did that to me, I would think they were cowards, wimps, and liars. I would never trust them again.

[Maximilian]

It's true! I was a straight A student, and captain of the debate team, and never did anything wrong. Then one day my parents gave me a ride to the airport and said I was going to summer camp. When I got picked up by two burly men, they took me to a program and there my soul was destroyed and I left a program robot. Now I can't work and am on disability for the brainwashing, and use drugs all day long because I was permanently damaged in the five thousand dollar a month treatment center my parents sent me to fifteen years ago.

You mock.  So you don't think there are innocent people who get sent to these places?  You don't think there are any who are telling the truth?  You don't think that there is anybody out there for who the whole experimental cult crap didn't mix well?  I guess what i'm asking is whether you think we're all liars in denial, or just the majority of us?

Sure some might be lying, but the details of their stories often makes such things hard to lie about.  If one kid describes being forced to, for example, give a lapdance in a french maid's outfit, and another person several years later who had never head of the first girl reports the same exact thing, and other students confirm the story, it's even less likely.  Because we know at this point the program will lie, it's worth hearing the kid's story out, especially if it is confirmed by so many else.  

What would motivate a parent to send their kid to a behavior program that costs thousands of dollars a month, for no reason at all? What about hundreds, or even thousands of parents, what is their motivation to keep programs in business with kids who are completely normal and doing well at home?

There are no secrets in program.

Of course there are, this is absurd.

[Maximilian]

The reason is because the same kids who ended up in programs as teens are the people who also grow up to be the people who end up insane, in jail or dead from drug overdose. How many teens do you know who were straight A students with no issues, that suddenly developed a drug addiction in their 30's? Being a troubled teen is a symptom of a problem that has a good chance of lasting a long time, so they try to intervene and help before it gets out of control. If you were in a program you belong to a population of individuals who have more issues than people who didnt' go to programs as teens, sad but true.

[Froderik]

Being a troubled teen is a symptom of a problem that has a good chance of lasting a long time, so they try to intervene and help before it gets out of control. If you were in a program you belong to a population of individuals who have more issues than people who didnt' go to programs as teens, sad but true.

LIES.

Very gross generalization, for starters.

You must really think people who read this are stupid, don't you, Max?

[Maximilian]

Being a troubled teen is a symptom of a problem that has a good chance of lasting a long time, so they try to intervene and help before it gets out of control. If you were in a program you belong to a population of individuals who have more issues than people who didnt' go to programs as teens, sad but true.

LIES.

Very gross generalization, for starters.

You must really think people who read this are stupid, don't you, Max?

TRUTH.

Mine font is bigger so it must be true.

Why is it this is the only website, where people who went to programs post, that I see people openly bragging about illegal drug use? So why did your parents pull you out of Space Camp, and send you to a program, when you were doing so well? This is called the program paradox, every kid claims they were there for no reason, yet programs are still filled with kids. It's a paradox!

[psy]

What would motivate a parent to send their kid to a behavior program that costs thousands of dollars a month, for no reason at all? What about hundreds, or even thousands of parents, what is their motivation to keep programs in business with kids who are completely normal and doing well at home?

I never said doing well at home.  Obviously that is going to be the case, but whether the kids did anything wrong is another thing altogether.  Take the gay kid who gets sent off to get "fixed" or the kid that's there because he/she dresses in black.  That happens.  Some parents are conned by slick advertising.  Some parents are conned by being told that their kid has a worse problem than they really do (if any).  There are so many ways parents get sucked in.

They pay because they care about the wellbeing of their kids and the program takes advantage of that.  Because they care they'll want the best, and trust the "professionals" to do it.  So the'll take the kid, train him to bark on command and demonstrate for the parents (eg: forced confession letter to parents).  The parents end up thinking the kid is making progress.  They pay more, and more, and more, as they're fed a narrative that the kid is making progress but just needs more time.

[RobertBruce]

An interesting discussion. I agree that there is exaggeration on both sides in some cases. (Dead insane and in Jail may be exaggerated by some programs to help the placement along). Like you mentioned the "melodramatic ethos" serve to rationalize ones decision. This would have to equally apply to those survivors who choose to tell dramatic stories of kidnappings and being held prisoner in gulags. We know these are fantasies but they are told for a reason. Maybe because these descriptive words relieve them of any responsibility for their part in being placed into the program. I mean how can we blame a kid who was kidnapped and placed in a Gulag. None of that could have been his/her fault right (if they were kidnapped)? If a survivor tells this story they are viewed as a victim and can play the part. where as if they say they went to Juvy or a RTC people would ask "What did you do to get your ass placed in there?" By saying they were kidnapped they deflect all responsibility for the placement and avoid having to explain how they screwed up.

Again, kids have no reason to lie about the abuse in these places. The truth is bad enough as it is.

The situation you're describing is easily applicable to the pro abuse side. Parents and programmies use this sad and tired fear tactic as a means of aleviating themselves of guilt:

Yes, we abused you, yes we denied you your rights, yes we violating numerous laws and statutes regarding your treatment. Yes we lied to your parents, yes we actively sought to deny you contact with the outside world in order to keep you quiet. Yes we played mind games and emotionally abused you. Yes we're going to deny all of this later on. It's all true, but we feel THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS afterall, if we didn't you'd be deadorinjail.

By claiming that if they hadn't abused us we would be dead or in jail, people like yourself are free to try and avoid respondsibility for your actions.

[RobertBruce]

Okay mister Bruce we will let you out early from HLA as long as you stop threatening to send more emails to my wife. lol

They didn't let me out John, I escaped. They tried to get me back but the cops took my side. They generally pick the side that isn't trying to break the law.

As to your wife, don't be stupid, she died years ago. Still waiting on you to respond over in the OFFA forum, let me know when you work up the courage.

What would motivate a parent to send their kid to a behavior program that costs thousands of dollars a month, for no reason at all? What about hundreds, or even thousands of parents, what is their motivation to keep programs in business with kids who are completely normal and doing well at home?

Maybe because they're bad parents. You add creedence to the thought that you never actually attended a program. Given your blatence ignorance on virtually all things that seem to be across the board in all of these programs it seems hard to believe you were ever actually in a program.

Of course there are, this is absurd.

I think he's refering to the secrets of kids locked into the programs. They aren't permitted secrets.

[Maximilian]

What would motivate a parent to send their kid to a behavior program that costs thousands of dollars a month, for no reason at all? What about hundreds, or even thousands of parents, what is their motivation to keep programs in business with kids who are completely normal and doing well at home?

I never said doing well at home.  Obviously that is going to be the case, but whether the kids did anything wrong is another thing altogether.  Take the gay kid who gets sent off to get "fixed" or the kid that's there because he/she dresses in black.  That happens.  Some parents are conned by slick advertising.  Some parents are conned by being told that their kid has a worse problem than they really do (if any).  There are so many ways parents get sucked in.

They pay because they care about the wellbeing of their kids and the program takes advantage of that.  Because they care they'll want the best, and trust the "professionals" to do it.  So the'll take the kid, train him to bark on command and demonstrate for the parents (eg: forced confession letter to parents).  The parents end up thinking the kid is making progress.  They pay more, and more, and more, as they're fed a narrative that the kid is making progress but just needs more time.

So programs are filled with gay goth kids with ignorant, easily duped, yet also wealthy, parents? Programs exist because parents want them, not the other way around.