Responsibility for Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry

[Maximilian]

The reason people are so mad at me all the time is because I don't read off the fornits script. If I was a program staff who abused 100 kids and came here and said the right things, everyone would be my friend. But I never abused anybody, and choose to be honest, and am hated for it, because I don't tow the party line here, and I tell it like it  was when I went to a program. So is the life of someone willing to be honest with themselves amongst a group of ideologically pure extremists. I've been judged, and called every name under sun. Sicko, cruel , unempathetic, sadistic, an abuser, etc, etc, etc. But all this isn't the result of my actions in real life, simply what I have posted on an internet forum. Words. That's it. Some of you people really need to get some perspective, fornits does not represent reality, programs, or the people in them.

[none-ya]

The reason people are so mad at me all the time is because I don't read off the fornits script. If I was a program staff who abused 100 kids and came here and said the right things, everyone would be my friend. But I never abused anybody, and choose to be honest, and am hated for it, because I don't tow the party line here, and I tell it like it  was when I went to a program. So is the life of someone willing to be honest with themselves amongst a group of ideologically pure extremists. I've been judged, and called every name under sun. Sicko, cruel , unempathetic, sadistic, an abuser, etc, etc, etc. But all this isn't the result of my actions in real life, simply what I have posted on an internet forum. Words. That's it. Some of you people really need to get some perspective, fornits does not represent reality, programs, or the people in them.

 If the program saved your life, why are you still a complete asshole?
It don't sound like they did a very good job.
I'd ask for my money back!

[Samara]

Look, Maxi, you are here a great deal of time. If you thought everyone's perspective was wasted space, why hang out here? Do not dare pull the "poor me" crap you supposedly ascribe to other posters here simply because you will not allow other people a voice in advocating against abuse. And like I said, I know too many people off Fornits with the same collective experience.

If you continued with your positive program experiences, I would not be so snarky. The fact that you undermine and belittle other people's hell is sicko.

[Maximilian]

I post here because I choose to, I don't owe anybody an explanation why. Take a look at the response before yours as an example of the typical response I get here, no matter how polite I am. But that's different right, because they are good, attacking me, someone who is evil, right?  How dare I be honest and admit that a program saved my life, and that I was not abused. Something that many, many kids who went through programs will say. People are angry at me for posting here, because they want to believe everyone who went to programs had a negative experience just like them, and when people like me or Whooter or anybody else dare that this might not be true, they are attacked by the group until they silence themselves by leaving the forum. Sorry I'm not going anywhere, the hypocritical group attack that permeates fornits of unwelcome opinions will not work on me. Remember, I've been in a program, I'm very familiar with, and also immune to this type of tactic now.

I could ask you the same question. Why do you post here when you know "sickos" like me and Whooter are going to question the obvious bullshit that gets posted here all the time, like condemning all programs based on a limited sample of experiences? Maybe you should try your local support group for program survivors, surely there are many, since programs are so abusive and all, right?

[Samara]

You know what, Maxi, I understand you have a vested interest in obfuscation. But don't cry about group bullying when you bully survivors and create fake blackmail schemes. That is a special kind of sickness, and like I've said before, if you were a rapist, would you go on a rape survivor's site and delight in how they really liked it, or simply assert it didn't happen at all? It is inhumane and offensive.

As far as me being here, yes, there are other sites - and many of my old peers have also invested in individual therapy for PTSD - but I do have a sentimental attachment to Fornits because it is the first place I really explored what happened. But to me, you are just a type of rapist who visits the rape survivor site.

But since the topic is "Responsibility for Abuse in the TTI" maybe we should explore exactly how abusers get away with it.  And one tactic is elliptical, script flipping invalidation, along with a nice smile, some esoteric words, and a fine and dandy "who, me?" look of bewilderment, O Great O5ne.

[Maximilian]

But to me, you are just a type of rapist who visits the rape survivor site.

You can judge me all you want, and call me a rapist or whatever makes you feel better. I really could care less. This type of emotional grand standing does little counter the logical arguments I have made about why generalizations about an entire industry based on a limited number of individual experiences are not accurate. So you and your buddies can call people names, judge them, and use colorful language to push reader's emotional buttons, but it won't change the fact that most programs are safe and effective, and that many parents will continue to entrust their teens to the care of them. If you don't want to debate about the TTI, then like I said, go found a survivor support group, because fornits obviously isn't what you're looking for. But then again, there aren't that many people looking for a support group because they went to a program as a teen. I wonder why that is.

[Samara]

I know you don't care. It's your defining trait.

And there are quite a few sites for survivors, but we are still in the dark ages here. Not too many years ago, there was no help for domestic abuse or rape survivors, either. And we all know, domestic abuse and rape don't exist, right O Great O5ne?

If you did go on another site for survivors and basically said they were liars and fools, would you expect them to bake you warm apple pie?

[Maximilian]

I have gone and posted on other "survivor" sites, although nobody on those groups and forum referred to themselves with this term. That seems to be reserved for fornits, along with other words like kidnapped, gulag, rapist, etc. I asked if anybody saw or experienced physical abuse, and I was basically laughed out of the group. You think I like programs? You should try talking to the people who frequent some of the groups I read. I don't post there because I don't fit in there, or here. Since I have my own views that don't align either with the "survivor" community or the program faithful, I am kind of in a no mans land of people who are willing to be honest and not have any e-friends. I think I'll live.

[Awake]

But I never abused anybody .

Can you prove you never abused anybody?

[Maximilian]

But I never abused anybody .

Can you prove you never abused anybody?

This one time I went to visit a friend at their home, and I knew they were granola, earth friendly type of person. That doesn't bother me at all, I use stainless steel water bottles and recycle, I tend to think of myself as someone who cares about the planet. We were talking and having a drink (soda) and I asked if I could go use the restroom. When I got in there the toilet looked like somebody had already urinated in it, and not flushed the toiled. Gross, I thought. I decided to pre flush to make sure it was working, and it did. So I did my business, washed my hands and went out to see my friend. I didn't know if I should say something, because I thought it might be awkward, so I said "I think your toilet might be busted, because it looked like it didn't flush before me". They started grinning as I said this and I wondered what they were smiling about, "we don't flush for number 1". I thought wtf? Who doesn't flush the toilet when they pee, and what adult calls taking a piss "number 1"? Well long story short, it was explained to me that it was a waste of a precious resource, clean water, to flush every time you piss, and said next time I piss in their home I should not flush unless it's "number two". I was thinking whatever, I'll flush if I want, I thought it was all pretty strange, and taking environmentalism way too far. I thought it was gross, at least they could have given me a warning upon entering the bathroom. Well I just wanted to respond to your off topic post with some more off topic stuff, because in the end this will all be nixed by the moderator for being off topic. If the admin is reading this don't even bother saving or moving my posts, feel free to nuke em all, this conversation is pointless.

[Samara]

Maxi5, I would go head to head with you any day on the subject of honesty and fucking certainly on the subject of sincerity.  I am really deaf, and yet, you are deafer than I will ever be when you insist on curtailing the issue that you are unpopular here because of your lack of empathy - not over your belief in Program Jesus.  You clearly patronize survivors and think of yourself as superior. Quite strange. I mean, I don't feel a need to visit places where I view the inhabitants as low lifes. And yet, you do.

Makes. No. Sense.

[Maximilian]

Maxi5, I would go head to head with you any day on the subject of honesty and fucking certainly on the subject of sincerity.  I am really deaf, and yet, you are deafer than I will ever be when you insist on curtailing the issue that you are unpopular here because of your lack of empathy - not over your belief in Program Jesus.  You clearly patronize survivors and think of yourself as superior. Quite strange. I mean, I don't feel a need to visit places where I view the inhabitants as low lifes. And yet, you do.

Makes. No. Sense.

Will it make you feel better if I say you are a better person than me? I'll admit it, Samara. You are superior to me in every way. Now go enjoy your weekend, and stop wasting your time talking to me. I'm not worth your time. I am not superior to anyone on this forum, in fact, I am quite the piece of shit, and will most likely pay for my sins for all of eternity in the pits of hellfire. But I have accepted this about myself, and it doesn't effect the reality of what I experienced in programs. My morals, or lack of, and motivations for posting here are irrelevant to the discussion of whether programs are effective and/or are abusive. I believe the program saved my life, because it's true. I don't see the people who post here as low lifes, I see them as people who had different experience in programs than I did, and sometimes people here agree with me, but often disagree. However I try not to assume who the person behind the avatar really is, or what their motivations are, or judge them. I try to self correct through both self examination and the examination of external influences, remember, everything happens for a reason.

[Samara]

I can't even respond to this BS. You act superior and put down survivors and then say you are trying to share diverse experiences? I'm getting whiplash from your contradictions.

But thank you for your sincere best wishes for my weekend. I did enjoy my day. I took my children to an awesome show and then participated in a charity event and had some incredible Pumpkin Spice microbrew afterward. But fun and games end with this paper in front of me.

Ciao.

[Awake]

But I never abused anybody .

Can you prove you never abused anybody?

this conversation is pointless.

Why pointless? If we’ve learned anything it is that he term abuse is used highly subjectively in the case of the TTI because there is no clear definition of it in that context. Shadyacres put it best by saying that the law has not caught up with science in being able to establish what is or is not abuse in the case of programs. At one time tobacco was sold as a safe product and marketed to children, but whoops aw shucks, sorry I accused all you dying cancer victims of lying. Maybe we do need a disclaimer on the box and enough informed consent to make a decision, and they should prove their product is safe.

[Froderik]

But I never abused anybody .

Can you prove you never abused anybody?

This one time I went to visit a friend at their home, and I knew they were granola, earth friendly type of person. That doesn't bother me at all, I use stainless steel water bottles and recycle, I tend to think of myself as someone who cares about the planet. We were talking and having a drink (soda) and I asked if I could go use the restroom. When I got in there the toilet looked like somebody had already urinated in it, and not flushed the toiled. Gross, I thought. I decided to pre flush to make sure it was working, and it did. So I did my business, washed my hands and went out to see my friend. I didn't know if I should say something, because I thought it might be awkward, so I said "I think your toilet might be busted, because it looked like it didn't flush before me". They started grinning as I said this and I wondered what they were smiling about, "we don't flush for number 1". I thought wtf? Who doesn't flush the toilet when they pee, and what adult calls taking a piss "number 1"? Well long story short, it was explained to me that it was a waste of a precious resource, clean water, to flush every time you piss, and said next time I piss in their home I should not flush unless it's "number two". I was thinking whatever, I'll flush if I want, I thought it was all pretty strange, and taking environmentalism way too far. I thought it was gross, at least they could have given me a warning upon entering the bathroom. Well I just wanted to respond to your off topic post with some more off topic stuff, because in the end this will all be nixed by the moderator for being off topic. If the admin is reading this don't even bother saving or moving my posts, feel free to nuke em all, this conversation is pointless.