Author Topic: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry  (Read 3035 times)

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Offline Awake

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? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« on: September 22, 2010, 09:11:10 PM »
Can anyone help me find information that defines what 'abuse' consists of in our current ethical standards for these programs? Any resources would be helpful.


As well I want to know if you (those who were in a program) experienced something particular that you felt was abusive that may or may not be part of the accepted ethical standards for what is abuse.  


For those who were forced through a program and not given the choice I believe it is your right to be part of defining abuse as the environment disqualified ones free expression.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 12:38:20 AM »
abuse

n. (-bys)
1. Improper use or handling; misuse: abuse of authority
2. Physical maltreatment: spousal abuse.
3. Sexual abuse.
4. An unjust or wrongful practice: a government that commits abuses against its citizens.
5. Insulting or coarse language: verbal abuse.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abuse
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Offline psy

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 10:20:59 AM »
Quote from: "Awake"
Can anyone help me find information that defines what 'abuse' consists of in our current ethical standards for these programs? Any resources would be helpful.
Define "our".  Lots of people have different opinions, even here, on what constitutes abuse and so on.  I'd say it's better to just states what happened and let others judge whether it was abuse or not.  Are dog cages at High Impact or the Hobbit at SCL(A) abuse?  Most people would agree so.  Are LGATs and confrontational attack therapy abusive?  I'd say so.  Others wouldn't...  but if you're looking for a mission statement of some sort...  maybe it's best you write one.  I'm not sure anybody has done anything like that.
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 02:01:33 PM »
My definition of whether something is abusive is, whether the perpetrator of the action could be arrested for what they did. I never saw anything at the program that rose to this level. That is why people here don't just call the cops on programs, because what happens in programs for the most part is legal, even if people here want to relabel it abuse. The term abuse on fornits is relative, I choose to use the legal definition, of whether somebody could be prosecuted and arrested for what they did. I think to myself, if I had a cell phone in the program, could I have called the police and would they have intervened and arrested the staff, or therapist during the group therapy? The answer is no, I would have probably got a ticket for abusing the 911 system if I had called from the program.
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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 04:21:42 PM »
It is a closed environment completely cut off from the outside world ( the one I was in, at least ).  No talking to non-indoctrinated people. No privacy, at all.  This is abusive to a developing teen, who in most cases has not been convicted of any crime.  The law has not caught up with science in this area.  It is possible to cause MASSIVE psychological damage to a person at this fragile stage of development, which is why only licensed psychologists should be able to provide this kind of therapy.  This kind of damage would be invisible to any patrol officer.  Also, much of the physical abuse takes place in small rooms with limited people involved, who are all indoctrinated into the program, by the time the police showed up there would be no evidence or (willing) witnesses.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 07:10:52 PM »
I would suggest trying to determine what is "uniquely" abusive about programs.  Rape is abusive, but it occurs everywhere.. public schools, churches, privates schools, at home, camping trips etc.

What sets programs apart as being abusive?  Is there anything unique?  or are we just talking about random events of abuse that occur in programs which also occur outside of programs.

If someone is raped in a McDonalds that doesn't make all McDonalds abusive.  Do you see what I mean?



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Offline Ursus

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 07:46:51 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
It is a closed environment completely cut off from the outside world ( the one I was in, at least ).  No talking to non-indoctrinated people. No privacy, at all.  This is abusive to a developing teen, who in most cases has not been convicted of any crime.  The law has not caught up with science in this area.  It is possible to cause MASSIVE psychological damage to a person at this fragile stage of development, which is why only licensed psychologists should be able to provide this kind of therapy.  This kind of damage would be invisible to any patrol officer.  Also, much of the physical abuse takes place in small rooms with limited people involved, who are all indoctrinated into the program, by the time the police showed up there would be no evidence or (willing) witnesses.
Very incisive observation. And nicely put! Indeed, the law has not caught up to science with regard to what can damage a developing psyche. But then again, not all psyche professionals are of one mind about this.

I myself also have some deep reservations as to what exactly is on the agenda of many of these professionals and specialists in relevant fields. Some of them do not appear to have their client's interests at the fore, but rather the interests and needs of school administrations, local politics, Big Pharma, and the approval or acceptance of their circle of peers. Thankfully, this last incentive can at least work both ways.
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Joel

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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 08:33:21 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Offline Awake

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 11:59:09 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Awake"
Can anyone help me find information that defines what 'abuse' consists of in our current ethical standards for these programs? Any resources would be helpful.
Define "our".  Lots of people have different opinions, even here, on what constitutes abuse and so on.  I'd say it's better to just states what happened and let others judge whether it was abuse or not.  Are dog cages at High Impact or the Hobbit at SCL(A) abuse?  Most people would agree so.  Are LGATs and confrontational attack therapy abusive?  I'd say so.  Others wouldn't...  but if you're looking for a mission statement of some sort...  maybe it's best you write one.  I'm not sure anybody has done anything like that.


Well, by 'our' I mean some legislation that outlines certain conditions of abuse or ethics violations. I just thought there might be something that say would have stict guidelines for what is considered an abuse of say sleep deprivation, isolation, verbal attacks, the size of the dog cage.... I didn't really know what to expect.  


Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
It is a closed environment completely cut off from the outside world ( the one I was in, at least ).  No talking to non-indoctrinated people. No privacy, at all.  This is abusive to a developing teen, who in most cases has not been convicted of any crime.  The law has not caught up with science in this area.  It is possible to cause MASSIVE psychological damage to a person at this fragile stage of development, which is why only licensed psychologists should be able to provide this kind of therapy.  This kind of damage would be invisible to any patrol officer.  Also, much of the physical abuse takes place in small rooms with limited people involved, who are all indoctrinated into the program, by the time the police showed up there would be no evidence or (willing) witnesses.
Very incisive observation. And nicely put! Indeed, the law has not caught up to science with regard to what can damage a developing psyche. But then again, not all psyche professionals are of one mind about this.

I myself also have some deep reservations as to what exactly is on the agenda of many of these professionals and specialists in relevant fields. Some of them do not appear to have their client's interests at the fore, but rather the interests and needs of school administrations, local politics, Big Pharma, and the approval or acceptance of their circle of peers. Thankfully, this last incentive can at least work both ways.

I also think that was well put Shadyacres.  I think many people are under the impression that if a program doesn’t help someone it is at worst not harmful to go through, but I would submit that the Double Bind can be a psychologically traumatizing situation for a child that can alter them for life.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&hilit=double+bind%3A+mind+control

The double bind was originated as a theory of schizophrenia, has been proven to produce dissociated states in people in controlled studies and is currently still regarded as providing a means to understand the development of psychosis in children with sociopathic parents. Double binds have also been explored for particular use in therapy, very much in the context of the old circle of chairs we are all used to.

Here is the basic double bind formula.  In some fashion I think it can provide a guide to what precipitates psychological harm, and abuse.

• a) The victim of double bind receives contradictory injunctions.
• b) No metacommunication is possible
• c) The victim cannot leave the communication field
• d) Failing to fulfill the contradictory injunctions is punished
• e) an intense relationship, e.g., in family life, captivity, love, loyalty,


I think this also is a reason for why forced therapy is wrong altogether. It   inherently imposes conflicting demands ‘take responsibility for your progress in therapy, and do it because I tell you to, or you will be punished.’ The intense relationship portion is presumed to be the reason the double bind has such a powerful effect, and I think the TTI’s manipulation of interpersonal communication with parent and child can be a cause for serious harm.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 09:51:32 AM »
Wow, no offense, but this seems like a lot of mumbo-jumbo...lol

So then.....what exactly do we consider abuse...?   >yawns<

(It seems pretty obvious to me, but then, I'm a simple kind of man..)
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Offline shaggys

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 11:45:21 AM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
My definition of whether something is abusive is, whether the perpetrator of the action could be arrested for what they did. I never saw anything at the program that rose to this level. That is why people here don't just call the cops on programs, because what happens in programs for the most part is legal, even if people here want to relabel it abuse. The term abuse on fornits is relative, I choose to use the legal definition, of whether somebody could be prosecuted and arrested for what they did. I think to myself, if I had a cell phone in the program, could I have called the police and would they have intervened and arrested the staff, or therapist during the group therapy? The answer is no, I would have probably got a ticket for abusing the 911 system if I had called from the program.

This is probably one of the most disturbing posts by max/suckit yet. He never even acknowledges any abuse other than that which the police could theoretically be called for ie physical assault. What kind of robotic brainwashed monster would not aknowledge emotional, mental and verbal abuse as well? But see, you cant usually be arrested for those types of things. You can sue sometimes for that kind of abuse but the police will only arrest and prosecute you for physical assaults or threat of physical assault (sometimes). We all know that mental, emotional and verbal abuse can be far worse in the long term than the physical abuse can. A person who only considers a direct physical attack to be abuse is not even a Human Fucking Being to me. They are the slime that I try not to step in.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 12:00:12 PM »
Quote from: "shaggys"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
My definition of whether something is abusive is, whether the perpetrator of the action could be arrested for what they did. I never saw anything at the program that rose to this level. That is why people here don't just call the cops on programs, because what happens in programs for the most part is legal, even if people here want to relabel it abuse. The term abuse on fornits is relative, I choose to use the legal definition, of whether somebody could be prosecuted and arrested for what they did. I think to myself, if I had a cell phone in the program, could I have called the police and would they have intervened and arrested the staff, or therapist during the group therapy? The answer is no, I would have probably got a ticket for abusing the 911 system if I had called from the program.

This is probably one of the most disturbing posts by max/suckit yet. He never even acknowledges any abuse other than that which the police could theoretically be called for ie physical assault. What kind of robotic brainwashed monster would not aknowledge emotional, mental and verbal abuse as well? But see, you cant usually be arrested for those types of things. You can sue sometimes for that kind of abuse but the police will only arrest and prosecute you for physical assaults or threat of physical assault (sometimes). We all know that mental, emotional and verbal abuse can be far worse in the long term than the physical abuse can. A person who only considers a direct physical attack to be abuse is not even a Human Fucking Being to me. They are the slime that I try not to step in.

How about wrongful imprisonment / kidnapping?

Shit, man... so far, this "abuse" debate is fuckin' RETARDED.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2010, 12:07:31 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"

How about wrongful imprisonment / kidnapping?


According to what "Max" has written here, it simply doesn't happen in the TTI.  It appears he thinks that all kids who ended up in programs deserved it.

Quote
Shit, man... so far, this "abuse" debate is fuckin' RETARDED.

 :tup:
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Offline Froderik

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 12:13:04 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Froderik"

How about wrongful imprisonment / kidnapping?


According to what "Max" has written here, it simply doesn't happen in the TTI.  It appears he thinks that all kids who ended up in programs deserved it.

Quote
Shit, man... so far, this "abuse" debate is fuckin' RETARDED.

 :tup:

Yeah. I know this may be considered off topic, but I HAVE SERIOUS DOUBTS that SUCK_IT / Max was ever in a program. Why do people here feel they should take this phony at his/her word? (For all we know it could be Ottawa5 or somebody, or have the admins proven otherwise?)
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Offline Whooter

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Re: ? is Abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 12:27:20 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"

How about wrongful imprisonment / kidnapping?

Shit, man... so far, this "abuse" debate is fuckin' RETARDED.

Because they are drama phrases used here on fornits to keep the adrenaline going.  They dont exist in reality, Frod, we dont see to any false imprisonment or kidnapping charges brought against these places.

The abuse debate here stinks because it becomes apparent from reading this thread that abuse rarely occurs and parallels the level of abuse seen in other institutions like public school, boarding school etc.



...
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