Author Topic: Is Jail better than a program?  (Read 3228 times)

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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 08:49:47 PM »
Yet you weren't given that choice now were you? So you'll never really know if your life without Tim Robbins being forced up your ass every meal time could have turned out differently.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 11:37:30 PM »
To me the question is like 'Which would you rather have cut off, your hand or your foot?' Either one is horrible and will have lasting affects. I think you can pick apart both to say 'we could do this in jail, we could do this in a program' kind of thing, I've never been in juvie or prison so my perspective is limited, but there were plenty of kids locked up with me in HLA who were given the option of HLA or jail and chose HLA instead.
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2010, 02:41:04 AM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
I am wondering what people's opinions are on this. Do you feel that juvenile hall is a preferable location for a troubled teen, than them being placed in a program?

Let's say a parent knows their teen is using drugs, and knows the teen is stealing from the neighbors home to support their drug use. What should the parent do?

Should the parent call the police and have their own teen arrested for burglary and drug possession?
Should the parent ignore this behavior, and hope it gets better?
Should the parent confront their teen and attempt to control the situation themselves?

But what if the teen is caught by the police. The judge gives the parent a choice, six months in a juvenile hall or state run boot camp, or the parent can send the kid to a private program instead. What would you suggest this parent do?

According to parents on the board Conductdisorders the parents should call the police on their own kids. I happen to disagree with them, but I am not living in a culture where public psychological treatment is equal juvenile hall and court reference.

Not they should not ignore the behavior. They should investigate what is going on with an open mind. It is wellknown that problems can be caused due to problems in the family dynamics. Are both parents onboard or are they using their child as tool to fix a domestic issue? Are they using alcohol or perscription medication in front of their child while lecturing it about the dangers of alcohol and drugs teaching the doublestandards? Should they go to rehab first to set the good example? Is the community the problem? Can they join forces with other parents? Are there options for teenagers at all in the community?

Yes, they should confront their children, but in many cases they should seek training in how to conduct the confrontation. If people never are challenged on their actions how should they change them?

The juvenile hall should always be chosen but with a application for a psychological evaluation. Too many kids are overmedicated. They need to be taken off medication. State run boot camps are killers. The number teenagers killed in prove this statement. Private run programs can not be chosen with such a short time for proper evaluation. The decision of what program the child would go to would be a matter of who is paying the educational consultant the highest referral fee rather than what is in the best interest of the child.
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2010, 12:24:18 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Yet you weren't given that choice now were you? So you'll never really know if your life without Tim Robbins being forced up your ass every meal time could have turned out differently.

Sometimes I can't sleep at night and I lay in bed thinking about all the what if's. Like what if my parents had decided to call the cops on me and had me put in juvenile hall instead of a program, perhaps I would be a doctor or a lawyer, instead of the loser I am now. But hey, you got to deal with the hand life deals you. I think it's Tony Robbins, btw, Tim Robbins is that actor II'm pretty sure.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2010, 03:45:10 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
I am wondering what people's opinions are on this. Do you feel that juvenile hall is a preferable location for a troubled teen, than them being placed in a program?

Let's say a parent knows their teen is using drugs, and knows the teen is stealing from the neighbors home to support their drug use. What should the parent do?

Should the parent call the police and have their own teen arrested for burglary and drug possession?
Should the parent ignore this behavior, and hope it gets better?
Should the parent confront their teen and attempt to control the situation themselves?

But what if the teen is caught by the police. The judge gives the parent a choice, six months in a juvenile hall or state run boot camp, or the parent can send the kid to a private program instead. What would you suggest this parent do?

According to parents on the board Conduct disorders the parents should call the police on their own kids. I happen to disagree with them, but I am not living in a culture where public psychological treatment is equal juvenile hall and court reference.

Not they should not ignore the behavior. They should investigate what is going on with an open mind. It is well known that problems can be caused due to problems in the family dynamics. Are both parents on board or are they using their child as tool to fix a domestic issue? Are they using alcohol or prescription medication in front of their child while lecturing it about the dangers of alcohol and drugs teaching the double standards? Should they go to rehab first to set the good example? Is the community the problem? Can they join forces with other parents? Are there options for teenagers at all in the community?

Yes, they should confront their children, but in many cases they should seek training in how to conduct the confrontation. If people never are challenged on their actions how should they change them?

The juvenile hall should always be chosen but with a application for a psychological evaluation. Too many kids are over medicated. They need to be taken off medication. State run boot camps are killers. The number teenagers killed in prove this statement. Private run programs can not be chosen with such a short time for proper evaluation. The decision of what program the child would go to would be a matter of who is paying the educational consultant the highest referral fee rather than what is in the best interest of the child.

Oscar, though I agree with your comments above for a moderate situation between a child and his parents but once it has progressed above mod and gone into full blown rebellion then I don't blame parents for calling the authorities. Often times when the police are not called, innocent people get hurt like parents, siblings and unaware neighbors ect......
This rebellion could be caused by drug addiction, alcohol and emotional/mental issues that have not been appropriately dealt with (go figure).
Now when the child comes back home after his short stay in jail, then maybe local remedies can be sought out to help the issues the child has but if the situation escalates again to dangerous levels, well what can you do.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 04:33:19 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 04:23:27 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Oscar, though I agree with your comments above for a moderate situation between a child and his parents but once it has progressed above mod and gone into full blown rebellion then I don't blame parents for calling the authorities. Often times when the police are not called, innocent people get hurt like parents, siblings unaware neighbors ect......
This rebellion could be caused by drug addiction, alcohol and emotional/mental issues that have not been appropriately dealt with (go figure).
Now when the child comes back home after his short stay in jail, then maybe local remedies can be sought out to help the issues the child has but if the situation escalates again to dangerous levels, well what can you do.

It depends of the resources. I would for sure not wait until the situation needs help from the police, but I am aware that my options are much better than in other places. In some states you cannot help for your child unless the courts order it. Then you have to call the police regardless of the fact the kid will get a recoard.

Here is a story of a broken system: Saving Alex: A Mother Finally Got Desperately Needed Help for Her Troubled Son — By Having Him Arrested (Phoenix New Times)

Due to the money problems here in Denmark we have been forced to cut back on residential placement. It has gone down 20 percent in two years. Because you cannot ignore the problems we have improved our community based option so much that you can keep kids locally while treating them.

Rebellion - it must be expected by a teenager. alcohol intake is OK as long as the percentage is below 16.5 according to new research, drug use will demand training of the parents and close police monitor if the kid owns money to the dealers. Because dealers mostly have more than one customer it will demand some kind of co-orpation between parents to kick the deal off the campus
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2010, 04:37:19 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Oscar, though I agree with your comments above for a moderate situation between a child and his parents but once it has progressed above mod and gone into full blown rebellion then I don't blame parents for calling the authorities. Often times when the police are not called, innocent people get hurt like parents, siblings unaware neighbors ect......
This rebellion could be caused by drug addiction, alcohol and emotional/mental issues that have not been appropriately dealt with (go figure).
Now when the child comes back home after his short stay in jail, then maybe local remedies can be sought out to help the issues the child has but if the situation escalates again to dangerous levels, well what can you do.

It depends of the resources. I would for sure not wait until the situation needs help from the police, but I am aware that my options are much better than in other places. In some states you cannot help for your child unless the courts order it. Then you have to call the police regardless of the fact the kid will get a recoard.

Here is a story of a broken system: Saving Alex: A Mother Finally Got Desperately Needed Help for Her Troubled Son — By Having Him Arrested (Phoenix New Times)


This is a mother that is one crafty gal, she played the system.

Due to the money problems here in Denmark we have been forced to cut back on residential placement. It has gone down 20 percent in two years. Because you cannot ignore the problems we have improved our community based option so much that you can keep kids locally while treating them.

Rebellion - it must be expected by a teenager. alcohol intake is OK as long as the percentage is below 16.5 according to new research, drug use will demand training of the parents and close police monitor if the kid owns money to the dealers. Because dealers mostly have more than one customer it will demand some kind of co-orpation between parents to kick the deal off the campus
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2010, 07:15:02 PM »
I think it's Tom Robbins, the counter culture author.
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2010, 02:03:48 PM »
Speaking of Conductsdisorders. Here is such a thread about jail contra RTC.
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2010, 09:14:23 PM »
Rly? WTF kind of perverted Pepsi challenge is this?


Is jail better than parents?

Is a program better than god?

Do you believe in innocent drugs?

What troubled teens would you legalize?


You sure do ask some hard hitting questions. Let me know how that sociology paper turns out.
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Offline Eliscu2

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2010, 10:37:46 PM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
Rly? WTF kind of perverted Pepsi challenge is this?


Is jail better than parents?

Is a program better than god?

Do you believe in innocent drugs?

What troubled teens would you legalize?


You sure do ask some hard hitting questions. Let me know how that sociology paper turns out.

Are you a Politician? :suicide:  ::evil::
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2010, 11:56:09 AM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
Rly? WTF kind of perverted Pepsi challenge is this?


Is jail better than parents?

Is a program better than god?

Do you believe in innocent drugs?

What troubled teens would you legalize?


You sure do ask some hard hitting questions. Let me know how that sociology paper turns out.


Yup....same reaction I had.


viewtopic.php?f=32&t=31177&start=0#p379027

Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Is it just me, or do all these threads by Max...

What illegal drugs would you legalize?

Do you believe in God?

How do you feel towards your parents?

Is Jail better than a program?

The Parents Side of the Story



seem like some desperate attempt to explain why so many of "us" aren't grateful for what was done "for" us?  Kinda like the 'disgruntled druggie' thing we've all dealt with?  We're either heathens, drug abusers, parent haters, deadbeats or just ungrateful little brats.  Amirite?


It's probably just me.  



:feedtrolls:   (yeah, yeah...I know...I do it all the time.  I'm looking for a 12 step group to help me out with it  :seg: )



But, to stay on the thread topic - I'll let Law Enforcement Against Prohibition speak for me.  They say it better than I ever could and they have lots of fancy statistics and sources that would take too much time to copy/paste here.

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
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Offline RTP2003

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2010, 05:27:18 PM »
Drugs are better than jail.   Drugs are also better than a program.  Kinky sex is good, too.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2010, 05:32:35 PM »
Quote from: "RTP2003"
Drugs are better than jail.   Drugs are also better than a program.  Kinky sex is good, too.


:cheers: that's the best comment I've read on this thread.  Drugs are way better than
Programs or Jail, and Kinky Sex (the hetero kind) RULES!
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Offline Eliscu2

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Re: Is Jail better than a program?
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2010, 08:18:56 AM »
:seg:
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