General Interest > Addiction Treatment Philosophy
Choice vs Powerlessness
DannyB II:
--- Quote ---Well that is what it means. Its what "let go and let god" means. It's what step 3 means. Only god can stop you from drinking. You are still powerless. If for some reason you don't drink or resist temptation, it was God's doing, not your strength of will.
What about those who don't believe in a god, don't believe in a benevolent god, or believe god gave men free will. AA requires those people to change their beliefs and tells those who don't that they are basically doomed.
--- End quote ---
Pys, I think you are letting your bias out pace your actual knowledge of the literature and what it is saying. No one I know understands the Third Step this way.
Why would someone be doomed if they refuse God and AA, my brother did and he has been clean and sober since 2000.
I believe you are controlling (or) trying to control AA's over all message into your compartment of thoughts. AA is not exclusive it is inclusive, they want all thoughts, believers, non-believers and ect.....Stop taking Bill so literal...:) and yes their are the AA stompers.
psy:
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---Why would someone be doomed if they refuse God and AA, my brother did and he has been clean and sober since 2000.
--- End quote ---
That's my point. It *is* possible to quite without AA, despite claims to the contrary. Ever heard the AA slogan "it's our way or the die way". I could rattle off a few more off the top of my head. AA does teach that it's the only way to sobriety that works. Those who quit without AA are either considered to never have been true addicts or to be "dry drunks" or "merely abstaining". AA teaches that compulsive alcohol abuse is a spiritual disease that can only be cured through some higher power.
--- Quote ---I believe you are controlling (or) trying to control AA's over all message into your compartment of thoughts. AA is not exclusive it is inclusive, they want all thoughts, believers, non-believers and ect.....Stop taking Bill so literal...:) and yes their are the AA stompers.
--- End quote ---
Well, its like any religion. There are those who adhere to the writings and those who dont' really care so much and believe what they want to believe. I know of a woman who goes to private AA meetings in CA where they smoke pot throughout the meeting. They don't even read standard AA literature. Essentially it's AA in name only. It's still accurate to say that what AA's official literature teaches is the same as what i've described.
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---Why would someone be doomed if they refuse God and AA, my brother did and he has been clean and sober since 2000.
--- End quote ---
That's my point. It *is* possible to quite without AA, despite claims to the contrary. Ever heard the AA slogan "it's our way or the die way". I could rattle off a few more off the top of my head. AA does teach that it's the only way to sobriety that works. Those who quit without AA are either considered to never have been true addicts or to be "dry drunks" or "merely abstaining". AA teaches that compulsive alcohol abuse is a spiritual disease that can only be cured through some higher power.
--- Quote ---I believe you are controlling (or) trying to control AA's over all message into your compartment of thoughts. AA is not exclusive it is inclusive, they want all thoughts, believers, non-believers and ect.....Stop taking Bill so literal...:) and yes their are the AA stompers.
--- End quote ---
Well, its like any religion. There are those who adhere to the writings and those who dont' really care so much and believe what they want to believe. I know of a woman who goes to private AA meetings in CA where they smoke pot throughout the meeting. They don't even read standard AA literature. Essentially it's AA in name only. It's still accurate to say that what AA's official literature teaches is the same as what i've described.
--- End quote ---
Ya know I am beginning to believe we acknowledge the same thoughts about recovery, could that be possible. Sorry, I wasn't much for the slogans or their jargons either. I wanted to recover from a hopeless state and they helped me to accomplish that, I will be forever internally grateful to AA/NA for this.
For all the other nonsense that goes on in those darn rooms of AA/NA, well people have self will, take that and a skewed brain, you have yourself a crazy mixture. :)
Psy their are plenty of folks who smoke pot and go to AA, sorry Max and Art but it is true. I don't find a problem with it each to your own.
I personally have had enough of drugs and alcohol for my life time but that is me. I don't push this on anyone, why would I???
It is private and is really only understood by me.
DannyB II:
NOTE:
I did this in two posts because you threw out a lot of info up there.
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---Why would someone be doomed if they refuse God and AA, my brother did and he has been clean and sober since 2000.
--- End quote ---
That's my point. It *is* possible to quite without AA, despite claims to the contrary. Ever heard the AA slogan "it's our way or the die way". I could rattle off a few more off the top of my head. AA does teach that it's the only way to sobriety that works. Those who quit without AA are either considered to never have been true addicts or to be "dry drunks" or "merely abstaining". AA teaches that compulsive alcohol abuse is a spiritual disease that can only be cured through some higher power.
I am not sure where you are getting your info, it could just be from your local AA groups. Stay away from those groups because they are poisoning your mind. Psy, I can not explain why certain pockets of AA groups will teach and promote the ideas you tossed out there above.
It is so far from what the founding members and founders had in mine. I keep saying Bill Wilson did not buy into the disease/allergy thing and produced evidence of him speaking to that yet you keep throwing it out there. Well Psy, your just like the members today you will not stop preaching a principle that the founders did not endorse. This disease concept came out of the treatment centers and doctors.
--- Quote ---I believe you are controlling (or) trying to control AA's over all message into your compartment of thoughts. AA is not exclusive it is inclusive, they want all thoughts, believers, non-believers and ect.....Stop taking Bill so literal...:) and yes their are the AA stompers.
--- End quote ---
Well, its like any religion. There are those who adhere to the writings and those who dont' really care so much and believe what they want to believe. I know of a woman who goes to private AA meetings in CA where they smoke pot throughout the meeting. They don't even read standard AA literature. Essentially it's AA in name only. It's still accurate to say that what AA's official literature teaches is the same as what i've described.
I agreed to all of that point except for the analogy of AA being a religion. Just because "one" Judge said we were does not make it so.
--- End quote ---
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