General Interest > Addiction Treatment Philosophy

Choice vs Powerlessness

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Maximilian:
I believe the choice vs powerlessness debate is sort of a false dichotomy. I don't think it's just one or the other, I think addiction is a complicated issue with a lot of middle ground for all the various theories and ideas on why it happens to some people. Trying to settle on one theory will probably take away from the fact that it is complicated, and not everybody uses for the same reasons, some people don't seem to have any reasons at all, it just happens. Yes AA talks about powerlessness in the steps, but if they meant you are completely powerless over your entire life, then wouldn't everybody go drink every time they passed a bar on the street, or the next time a drug dealer asked if they wanted to buy something?

People in recovery make the choice not to use again every single day, and every time they choose to walk into an AA meeting. I feel like it starts out as a choice, but quickly descends after that into an addiction which is more complicated than making a simple rational choice. If people really believed they were completely powerless over their addiction, then there would be no hope of recovery, and no point in going to AA. Relapse is a part of recovery from any addiction, but it's not a reason to give up. You always have to keep trying, even if you slip up.

psy:
I'm gonna post some of what I wrote earlier in response to this:

--- Quote from: "Psy" ---
--- Quote from: "Maximilian" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
Can you describe exactly what that term "accountability" means as it was taught.  Are you accountable for everything that happened to in your life, including things that were done to you?
--- End quote ---

That's their definition, but I'm talking about more of a personal realization than what they taught at seminars. It was my fault I ended up in the program, and I don't mean this in the sense that they teach in seminars. Yes they teach a rigid form of accountability and choices, something I don't fully agree with. I think they teach it because it gives you a sense of control and a new way of making choices, and I find similar ideology in a lot of other things. We weren't taught AA, or 12 steps or anything like that in the program. They never mentioned it once, and addiction was for the most part considered a choice. AA philosophy and program ideology are actually quite different, if not contradictory.
--- End quote ---

I completely agree.  They're polar opposites.  The mistake is to think they are the only two philosophies.  AA teaches you are powerless.  The seminars teach you are at cause for everything and can thus control everything.  The middle-ground, what I believe, is that you choose and are responsible for 100% of your actions (including bad habits), but you are not responsible for what other people do to you, even if you accidentally put yourself in that situation (abuse, rape, etc).


--- Quote ---I tend to side with AA type argument more, based on what I've seen and my own experiences with addiction. I don't believe people choose to destroy their lives, at a certain point what once might have been a choice becomes an unhealthy addiction, which I think is a form of mental disorder like depression.
--- End quote ---

I sort of agree with you there...  sort of. I see addiction as a symptom of mental illness, not a mental illness in itself.  People use hard drugs to cope with problems. It alleviates the symptoms but makes the root causes (diseases, shitty experiences, etc) worse.  It creates a vicious circle.  Still.  People choose to quit drugs all the time. You can't quit a disease.  Because you can choose to quit, the choice to continue must also be a choice.  It's probably difficult to look back on things and face the truth that you chose drugs over family and friends, but that's the reality of what happened.  Low self worth, depression, overbearing parents, the trauma from program's abuse.  All these things can contribute and can constitute diseases in some cases but putting substances in your body to alleviate the symptoms is merely a symptom in itself.  AA, on the other hand, teaches that addition is a primary disease.


--- Quote ---Using drugs to the degree some people do, is as logical as jumping off a bridge when life gets tough. It's not a rational choice people make, something is wrong with them.
--- End quote ---

People make irrational choices all the time based on their desires.  It's easy to choose temporary relief over hard work and pain required to get back on track.  Still a choice.
--- End quote ---

psy:

--- Quote from: "Maximilian" ---I believe the choice vs powerlessness debate is sort of a false dichotomy. I don't think it's just one or the other, I think addiction is a complicated issue with a lot of middle ground for all the various theories and ideas on why it happens to some people. Trying to settle on one theory will probably take away from the fact that it is complicated, and not everybody uses for the same reasons, some people don't seem to have any reasons at all, it just happens. Yes AA talks about powerlessness in the steps, but if they meant you are completely powerless over your entire life, then wouldn't everybody go drink every time they passed a bar on the street, or the next time a drug dealer asked if they wanted to buy something?
--- End quote ---

Well that is what it means.  Its what "let go and let god" means.  It's what step 3 means.  Only god can stop you from drinking.  You are still powerless.  If for some reason you don't drink or resist temptation, it was God's doing, not your strength of will.

What about those who don't believe in a god, don't believe in a benevolent god, or believe god gave men free will.  AA requires those people to change their beliefs and tells those who don't that they are basically doomed.


--- Quote ---Relapse is a part of recovery from any addiction, but it's not a reason to give up. You always have to keep trying, even if you slip up.
--- End quote ---

Of course.  Nobody is perfect and people make mistakes (bad choices).

none-ya:

--- Quote ---psy wrote;
"Of course. Nobody is perfect and people make mistakes (bad choices)."
--- End quote ---

That's why they keep makeing white chips.

Maximilian:

--- Quote from: "psy" ---
Well that is what it means.  Its what "let go and let god" means.  It's what step 3 means.  Only god can stop you from drinking.  You are still powerless.  If for some reason you don't drink or resist temptation, it was God's doing, not your strength of will.

What about those who don't believe in a god, don't believe in a benevolent god, or believe god gave men free will.  AA requires those people to change their beliefs and tells those who don't that they are basically doomed.
--- End quote ---

I've never heard recovery explained this way inside an AA meeting, ever.

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