How to get sober

[psy]

Note I said... ANOTHER DUI.

Also, from my perspective as a single Mom busting her ass for two kids while working and completing my thesis, I don't have any time in my life for someone who doesn't have their shit together. I won't parent an adult.

I totally agree.  I was speaking more in terms of if you had the free time, were able to help, and the person genuinely wanted to quit.

[DannyB II]

Someone gets another DUI, don't chauffer them.

See.  But that can sometimes make things worse. If the person loses their job as a result of not being able to get to work, and the rest of their life falls apart, they're likely to drink far more, not less.  Stress and depression have a direct correlation with compulsive behavior.  The "tough love" approach often leads to more problems.

I'd agree with the bail bit and most of what you said, but when something is salvageable and there is a lot to lose...  If you're a friend you might as well help out.  The whole "must hit rock bottom" thing is a myth.  Smokers don't have to hit rock bottom to quit smoking and it's the same with any substance.

Have a friend who just recently ended in up in jail and I would not bail him out. He is a chef at the "W" in downtown Atlanta, the head chef, I mean this guy is originally out of Boston via NYC, to Atlanta, worked at some very prestigious restaurants in those cities.  
One problem though everyone overlooks and enables he is a functioning dope fiend. Has been for so many years I can not count anymore. His drugs have always come first, before wifes, kids, family and work. It would not be so bad if others did not have to be impacted by his behavior.
Well to make a long story short, he got popped partying at the "Four Seasons" (Atlanta) in a room with others and a hooker (he is married). They found dope, prescription drugs (narc), meth and pot. He is 47, the average age of the other offenders was 21 yrs old, also the room was in his name.
I don't know about tuff love, I am just not bailing him out because I think he is safer in jail. His wife is gone, this was the last straw, she moved with the kids back to California, he will not be protesting.
Dude needs help and this is my assistance in helping him, I have not gone out of my way to tell others not to bail him out. He has plenty of friends, he is a charming charismatic dude everyone likes, looks like we all just want to know that at least we tried to help him.  
This incident happened back in June he is still in jail, no one will bail him out. His case comes before a judge in late October.

[DannyB II]

Psy, you have never been a addict or drunk how would you know this.

Do doctors need to have had cancer to understand it?  Do psychologists have to have psychoses to diagnose and treat patients? Just because i'm neither a lush nor a member of your fruity little club doesn't mean I can't have a valid opinion on the subject and provide solid facts.

Listen calm down, I do not want to fight. I am excited that you even want to engage in this conversation and I truly believe I can learn a lot from Anne and yourself. I was really being more inquisition to your knowledge, I may not have posed a question as I should have.
No one has facts on addicts and alcoholics, yes they do have studies yet they always leave a wide open back door, ask any Doctor.
I do believe since you have been neither you do need to learn more, you have a very rosy picture associated with your opinions. I could only wish that addicts and alcoholics would recover from sheer will, Psy I am talking real abusers of substances, not weekend warriors.
 

This is not something you can read in a book from others such as yourself.

Yes it is.  There are these things known as "studies" from this field known as "science" from which you can learn objective truths.

They are very subjective also, not that I don't think they have relevance but the success rate for addicts and alcoholics, suck. Most die before they ever clean up.

There is not a cold stone addict or drunk here that would not say the had to hit the bottom, now that is all relative.

There's a catch 22.  If a person recovers, they hit their (relative) rock bottom.  If not, they haven't hit rock bottom yet.  It's silly.

No, don't take every "quote" so literal, I said it is more like a metaphor. It is common sense that your not going to change a negative behavior (habit) until the consequences are to much.

I don't believe you have to have a lung removed before you quit smoking. During my active using I quit smoking, just hated it. There has to be some low, where you are just sick and tired of living the way you are.

All you're really saying is that a person has to have a strong desire to quit.  That's just common sense.  Does it require they destroy their lives in order to gain that desire?  I don't believe so.

No it does not require it Psy, your right. Problem is many alcoholics and drug addicts do destroy their lives before they change. I really wish this did not have to be true.

Last note, I have mentioned several times that I no longer attend AA/NA meeting with any commitment. Please stop referring to me as I am a active member. This would be a false statement. The only issue there is at this point here, is my positive opinion about AA. I do believe for most addicts and alcoholics could benefit from AA's 12 steps and Traditions. As to the members of AA, well my opinions sways all over the place.

[shaggys]

Unfortunantely, some people are better off in jail. I would also tend to think that in some cases society needs to be protected from these dope fiends antics. The story Danny described is a familiar one to me. I just witnessed a similar scenario play out but the dopester was female. She did a couple of months at first in the local jail and then screwed up her parole with alcohol and went back for about 10 more months. Everyone liked her but just had enough of her dope bullshit. She is recently out of jail and I hear shes much better now. Sometimes a year or two in prison is exactly what these folks need to get it together. Very sad.

[Maximilian]

i'm neither a lush nor a member of your fruity little club

By fruity little club are you referring to alcoholics anonymous? I'm asking because I noticed you included getting help from support groups in your advice, I'm curious what are your reasons for singling out AA as the one support group that people should not attend? Besides the studies and scientific theories, is there a personal reason that you are opposed to AA? Like did something bad happen to you at AA or somebody you know? I'm just kind of curious where your feelings about AA come from. thanks.

[Maximilian]

Sometimes a year or two in prison is exactly what these folks need to get it together. Very sad.

If someone that falls into this category, and when they got out and said to people "prison saved my life" it would probably sound confusing and laughable, especially to other people who went to prison. But this is exactly all I'm saying, when I say a program saved my life. It wasn't the therapy or seminars or advice I got from staff, it was the simple act of removing me from my self destructive lifestyle at home for a relatively significant length of time that did it.

[Samara]

Jail would have been cheaper

[DannyB II]

Re: How to get sober

Postby Maximilian » 21 minutes ago

shaggys wrote:
Sometimes a year or two in prison is exactly what these folks need to get it together. Very sad.

Max wrote:
If someone that falls into this category, and when they got out and said to people "prison saved my life" it would probably sound confusing and laughable, especially to other people who went to prison. But this is exactly all I'm saying, when I say a program saved my life. It wasn't the therapy or seminars or advice I got from staff, it was the simple act of removing me from my self destructive lifestyle at home for a relatively significant length of time that did it.

 

Re: How to get sober

Postby Samara » 7 minutes ago

Samara wrote:
Jail would have been cheaper

That was very aptly put my friend, Max. That is, all we have been saying.

Sanmra, so true but I personally would rather take my chances in a program. Prison can hurt much worse. :waaaa:

[twicebaked]

If you are detoxing at home, weed was one of the most useful tools in overcoming my own heroin addiction.  Ironically, heroin was the most useful tool in overcoming my alcoholism.

couldnt agree more about quiting h with alot of  L's. Get a good connect or liscence to grow else you will find yourself spending way too much money on pot.

[FemanonFatal2.0]

Funny, I'm actually participating (as a kind of sobriety coach) in my friend's recovery from a Heroin addiction.

This is what I believe is working.

He is in a court mandated program which regularly drug tests him and basically threatens to throw him in jail if he comes up dirty.

He moved into my house. A change of scenery was a very good move for him as it became clear that even visiting his house (where hes been getting high for many years) was a strong enough trigger to lead him to relapse.

He has my constant support and companionship. He also knows I know when he's high and I'll kick his ass.

We often have talks about how being sober has to be his decision, nothing we do could realistically stop him if he wanted to do it, he has made an agreement with himself that he wants nothing to do with dope.

I regularly give him chances to prove he is trustworthy and show him he has my respect and to me, he is not a heroin addict. I make it a point to indicate that the "addict" part of his disorder is separate from his personality and can be overcome with time and will.

We talk about the voice in his head that convinces him to use, we say "that's your addict talking" We've found it helpful to encourage an inner dialog by identifying the excuses "your addict" makes and prepare realistic rebuttals to convince him not to use.

We talk about strength, that a feeling of weakness is not an excuse to relapse and partaking in a substance is a choice that in his case comes with heavy consequences.

He also plays WoW a lot. lol. (staying busy/ entertained is a good way to ward off cravings)

No weed yet, he can't in his program but I have all confidence that he will partake after his program ends. I think it is a positive thing in his case as he has always smoked weed before he started H, so for him it is simply a return to normalcy.

We've only had one small slip in the last 60 days... I think he's doing very well.