Author Topic: How to Manipulate your way out of a program  (Read 8545 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2010, 08:30:35 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Are you seriously suggesting it is the posters' fault for not applying themsleves to an abusive program? Seriously?

Ok - so your assertion is that there are NO abusive programs. Anyone here who claims they did go through an abusive program as well as everyone off site who claims the same is LYING and didn't aplly themselves properly? Wow.

I am asking Max why he spends so much time here when the program saved his life and everyone here is according to him, a loser. I am wondering why you live here when you could be focusing on saving more youths in your program. It really just defies understanding.

If I thought everyone here was a liar and if I were as apathetic to the abuse they experienced as you are, I would not waste my time. To do so would only prove I am sadistic, rather than merely ignorant.

You are super talented at twisting stuff around though -  did you take classes for that or does it come naturally?

I believe you misread my post.  I said:

It’s the few who were harmed by the programs or didn’t apply themselves and therefore didn’t do well who post here.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Samara

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 488
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2010, 08:33:07 PM »
But it wasn't a few.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2010, 08:49:42 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
But it wasn't a few.

I believe it was.  I guess it is relative, though.  We would have to get some hard numbers in order to solidify whether the posters constitute a "few" or not.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Maximilian

  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2010, 08:56:06 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
I am asking Max why he spends so much time here when the program saved his life and everyone here is according to him, a loser. I am wondering why you live here when you could be focusing on saving more youths in your program. It really just defies understanding.

I don't think everybody here is a loser. I don't work for a program, and I don't work with troubled youths. I will leave that to the people who have the experience, passion and training to do it. I choose to post here because I was involved in many different forms of treatment spread out over a relatively large portion of my life. Not many people want to talk about treatment programs, AA , sobriety and our issues when we were teens. I have opinions on what I experienced and I share to choose them, I don't see how that defies understanding.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Samara

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 488
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2010, 09:25:33 PM »
Ok. But you don't seriously blame yourself in entirety, do you? I mean, I'm not saying that you should find someone to blame.  I'm saying that troubled kids result from a confluence of factors. Usually, a clusterfuck of factors.  Parents, temperment, biology, choices, hormones, trauma.  Bad therapy... (no, I don't even mean programs - I mean inept "support")
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3273
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2010, 09:35:14 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Ok. But you don't seriously blame yourself in entirety, do you? I mean, I'm not saying that you should find someone to blame.  I'm saying that troubled kids result from a confluence of factors. Usually, a clusterfuck of factors.  Parents, temperment, biology, choices, hormones, trauma.  Bad therapy... (no, I don't even mean programs - I mean inept "support")

This would be correct. BTW, your post that Max commented on was a great read. Thanks for your insight.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2010, 09:44:22 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Not many people want to talk about treatment programs, AA , sobriety and our issues when we were teens.

70% of the kids in program with me, including myself, were not there for drug related issues.  Most were there for ADHD, aspergers, depression, lack of social skills, eating disorders, to finish high school, because their parents were getting divorced and so forth.  I remember their names.  I remember what they were there for.  I remember how many graduated (3%).  Now you can claim i'm lying but that's what their website advertises to so it's reasonable to assume they do that for a reason and gain such clientele.  Most programs I know of are like this.

Maybe you were some wunderkid fuckup, but I highly doubt it.  Most teens who use drugs, even to extreme, do not grow up to become addicts. Furthermore:
Quote from: "Stanton Peele, Ph.D"
Inpatient treatment programs are rarely justified for children's healthy development.10 They can even harm children by giving them identities as alcoholics or substance abusers, and setting them up for relapse.11
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Maximilian

  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2010, 09:49:31 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Not many people want to talk about treatment programs, AA , sobriety and our issues when we were teens.

70% of the kids in program with me, including myself, were not there for drug related issues.  Most were there for ADHD, aspergers, depression, lack of social skills, eating disorders, to finish high school, because their parents were getting divorced and so forth.  I remember their names.  I remember what they were there for.  I remember how many graduated (3%).  Now you can claim i'm lying but that's what their website advertises to so it's reasonable to assume they do that for a reason and gain such clientele.  Most programs I know of are like this.

Maybe you were some wunderkid fuckup, but I highly doubt it.  Most teens who use drugs, even to extreme, do not grow up to become addicts. Furthermore:
Quote from: "Stanton Peele, Ph.D"
Inpatient treatment programs are rarely justified for children's healthy development.10 They can even harm children by giving them identities as alcoholics or substance abusers, and setting them up for relapse.11

What you just quoted is an explanation why I find this topic interesting enough for me to put the time in to posting on fornits. I'm not sure what that has to do with what the people you were in program with were there for. What percentage of people in Benchmark were "kids", as compared to legal adults? Isn't Benchmark for 17-28 year olds or something like that? Perhaps since it was more of a voluntary treatment environment, people went there for different issues. I can't really comment on it, I don't know enough about it. I am only commenting on my own experience, I can't speak for other people. I was stealing and lying to get high in middle school, and I grew up to become an addict. I wish I was the people in that study that grew out of it but I didn't. I remember the names of people from treatment programs I was in too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Maximilian

  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2010, 09:54:25 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Ok. But you don't seriously blame yourself in entirety, do you? I mean, I'm not saying that you should find someone to blame.  I'm saying that troubled kids result from a confluence of factors. Usually, a clusterfuck of factors.  Parents, temperment, biology, choices, hormones, trauma.  Bad therapy... (no, I don't even mean programs - I mean inept "support")

I could blame other things like you list, but I would feel like I am being dishonest with myself. That is just how I feel at this point. My siblings did well in school and followed the rules of our family, at least for the most part. I chose to use drugs, and do whatever I wanted without thinking of the consequences. I did those things because I thought it was fun, I didn't care about my life, and I was self centered and would always be let off with a slap on the wrist, whether from my parents or from the police. So I wasn't frightened of authority, had basically zero supervision, and reacted to that in a very self destructive way. I took it too far and eventually had to be helped to climb back out of the hole that I dug.

Nobody else forced me to degenerate the way I did, it happened because a long series of poor choices on my part. I'm not sure who else I could blame. My parent did the best they could, I won't blame them. Perhaps biology, because both my parents are alcoholics/addicts and I've been told it runs in the family. Perhaps a lot of things. I agree with you that our lives are made up of a series of many different and unique experiences, and our reactions to it. I made so many poor choices that to blame anybody but myself would just be very dishonest. That's how I feel about it. But no I'm not a extremist with this ideology, I do believe some things are out of our control. But I do know it was my fault, and mine alone that I ended up in a program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Samara

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 488
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2010, 10:07:47 PM »
Nobody forced you to degenerate, and you made some bad choices, but I'm not sure if the forces were all in your control.  But that's just opinion. Sometimes, I take too much responsibility for things to avoid bitterness. If I just accept total responsbility, I don't have to be bitter toward someone else. And sure, many things are in the realm of my control/responsibility. But, I've also found that sometimes I take on responsibility for something that isn't mine to take. So I don't have to focus on resenting someone. I hate the feeling of disliking someone. I'm okay with someone not liking me. I know I'm good enough, and if I'm not to your taste, fine.  But, I have a hard time not liking other people. Pretty strange, huh?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3273
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2010, 10:12:21 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Not many people want to talk about treatment programs, AA , sobriety and our issues when we were teens.

70% of the kids in program with me, including myself, were not there for drug related issues.  Most were there for ADHD, aspergers, depression, lack of social skills, eating disorders, to finish high school, because their parents were getting divorced and so forth.  I remember their names.  I remember what they were there for.  I remember how many graduated (3%).  Now you can claim i'm lying but that's what their website advertises to so it's reasonable to assume they do that for a reason and gain such clientele.  Most programs I know of are like this.

Maybe you were some wunderkid fuckup, but I highly doubt it.  Most teens who use drugs, even to extreme, do not grow up to become addicts. Furthermore:
Quote from: "Stanton Peele, Ph.D"
Inpatient treatment programs are rarely justified for children's healthy development.10 They can even harm children by giving them identities as alcoholics or substance abusers, and setting them up for relapse.11

Psy, you and I both know there is a huge population of meth, cocaine, heroin and crack addicts out there between the ages of 15 - 18. They will not end up at Benchmark because statistically they come from families with little resources, they also have violent tendencies which can be very disruptive to a program. They would rather have the non-drug user because they are easier to deal with. Drug addicts are also more aggressive and manipulative upon coming into treatment.
Whether these kids grow up not to be drug addicts is a "crap shoot", where do you think the drug addicts of today came from, you and I, Psy. We were just the lucky ones.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Maximilian

  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2010, 10:20:19 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Nobody forced you to degenerate, and you made some bad choices, but I'm not sure if the forces were all in your control.  But that's just opinion. Sometimes, I take too much responsibility for things to avoid bitterness. If I just accept total responsbility, I don't have to be bitter toward someone else. And sure, many things are in the realm of my control/responsibility. But, I've also found that sometimes I take on responsibility for something that isn't mine to take. So I don't have to focus on resenting someone. I hate the feeling of disliking someone. I'm okay with someone not liking me. I know I'm good enough, and if I'm not to your taste, fine.  But, I have a hard time not liking other people. Pretty strange, huh?

I don't think it's that strange at all. To carry around any sort of negative energy can take it's toll, I think and I try to avoid it as well. I do agree with you that some things are out of our control. Addiction has always felt that way to me, something I can't control sometimes. The reason I say the reason I ended up in a program was my fault, was because my parents tried all the local options, and I successfully manipulated my way out of those until the only option was a long term private program. I could have stayed in the local residential treatment center, and had visiting rights, two people per room which was luxurious compared to the private program, we were allowed stereos and CD's and had a volleyball pit. But I knew if you wanted out bad enough, they wouldn't stop you. So I ended up back at the psychiatric hospital after some things happened after that, and from there the social worker and psychiatrist said he needs to go somewhere long term. I also want to say I appreciate that you talk about yourself in your posts. I enjoy reading other people's experiences and opinions and why they feel the way they do, I think it makes for a more meaningful conversation. thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2010, 10:23:25 PM »
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Not many people want to talk about treatment programs, AA , sobriety and our issues when we were teens.

70% of the kids in program with me, including myself, were not there for drug related issues.  Most were there for ADHD, aspergers, depression, lack of social skills, eating disorders, to finish high school, because their parents were getting divorced and so forth.  I remember their names.  I remember what they were there for.  I remember how many graduated (3%).  Now you can claim i'm lying but that's what their website advertises to so it's reasonable to assume they do that for a reason and gain such clientele.  Most programs I know of are like this.

Maybe you were some wunderkid fuckup, but I highly doubt it.  Most teens who use drugs, even to extreme, do not grow up to become addicts. Furthermore:
Quote from: "Stanton Peele, Ph.D"
Inpatient treatment programs are rarely justified for children's healthy development.10 They can even harm children by giving them identities as alcoholics or substance abusers, and setting them up for relapse.11

What you just quoted is an explanation why I find this topic interesting enough for me to put the time in to posting on fornits. I'm not sure what that has to do with what the people you were in program with were there for. What percentage of people in Benchmark were "kids", as compared to legal adults? Isn't Benchmark for 17-28 year olds or something like that?

I'd say a good portion came there at 17.  Probably around half.  The rest were in fact over 18.  I woulnd' say they were consenting adults, however.  True consent requires it to be informed.  They deceived people into enrolling. They made it look like a nice place on the tour, set up rigged interviews, flat out lied about elements of the program, and more.  I consented to go to a boarding school where I would finish high school.  I didn't consent to, and made it quite clear to both my parents and the program that I was not interested in changing.  I was told change was optional and that they would not force me.  They lied.  Do you know what it's called when you sell one thing and deliver another?  It's called fraud. It's called misrepresentation.  I didn't consent to thought reform. I didn't consent to have my property, identification, and and any means of establishing myself on my own confiscated and held from me illegally.  When adults want to leave Benchmark their property is held from them.  They are told (eventually) to get jobs but are forced to sign their paychecks over to the program if they want to remain in good graces or ever have a relationship with their parents again.

I have no problem with consensual anything, but if you're thinking for one second I signed up for what I got, you're out of your mind.  I was an extrovert back then.  I could talk to a crowd of people without flinching, feeling nervous, or having this feeling of being surrounded.  Watch the video I recorded at NYRA.  That is not what I was.  They did that to me.  They did not help me. I thought they were saving my life when I was there but the truth is that all they did was demolish my sense of self and leave me hollow. I did nothing to deserve what was done, not that anybody did.  It was an accident, and even my parents would admit that.  They were deceived too.  Maybe yours were evil.  Maybe your did knew everything and did nothing.  Maybe you're this way because you need your parents love and that's the approval you seek.  Know what?  It's not worth it to give up who you are just because your parents disapprove.

I'm not saying go do drugs.  I never said that.  I felt sorry for you when you would describe what state you were in...  about Tijuana.  What i'm saying is that you shouldn't do even the right things if it's for the wrong reasons.  You should quit drugs for yourself, not because of conditional parental love, and you shouldn't praise the program just because you can't accept the fact that your parents abused you by proxy and had full knowledge of what went on.  Your father knew how long you were in the Hobbit.  Don't deny it was abuse.  Accept it and if you can find it in your heart, forgive him.

Quote
Perhaps since it was more of a voluntary treatment environment, people went there for different issues. I can't really comment on it, I don't know enough about it. I am only commenting on my own experience, I can't speak for other people. I was stealing and lying to get high in middle school, and I grew up to become an addict. I wish I was the people in that study that grew out of it but I didn't. I remember the names of people from treatment programs I was in too.

You were traumatized when you left the program.  You only knew one way to cope with the pain.  I don't blame you for turning to drugs, but I think here you're reversing cause and effect.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Maximilian

  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2010, 10:34:03 PM »
I am not in the position to forgive anyone for what happened to me in treatment. I was not wronged, in any other way than people finally showing me I wasn't allowed to destroy myself. It is me who must apologize to the people I hurt because of my behavior, not the other way around. If I could, I'd apologize to the staff I threatened and manipulated, and never thanked in the program. I'd also apologize to my family for being a self destructive, self centered drug addict who was more interested in my own selfish desires than the well being of our family. I will never get the opportunity to apologize to the staff at the program that I insulted and/threatened. I will never get to thank them for putting up with my arrogant, self centered, self destroying attitude. But I will eventually apologize to my family, in the form of a check, for the full amount of what they sacrificed in order for me to be saved from myself. I don't talk to my parents about my addiction issues, or the program and haven't in a long time. I'm not seeking any approval, but I do hope one day I will receive their forgiveness. Thanks for your post Psy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
Re: How to Manipulate your way out of a program
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2010, 12:30:45 AM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Are you seriously suggesting it is the posters' fault for not applying themsleves to an abusive program? Seriously?

Ok - so your assertion is that there are NO abusive programs. Anyone here who claims they did go through an abusive program as well as everyone off site who claims the same is LYING and didn't aplly themselves properly? Wow.

I am asking Max why he spends so much time here when the program saved his life and everyone here is according to him, a loser. I am wondering why you live here when you could be focusing on saving more youths in your program. It really just defies understanding.

If I thought everyone here was a liar and if I were as apathetic to the abuse they experienced as you are, I would not waste my time. To do so would only prove I am sadistic, rather than merely ignorant.

You are super talented at twisting stuff around though -  did you take classes for that or does it come naturally?

 :tup:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »