What if AA is mainstream and Fornits is the cult?

[none-ya]

Max-it wrote;
"I'm here to stay."

Oh goody!

[Shadyacres]

You can be almost certain to a 99 percent certainty that he witnessed someone being abused physically, mentally, verbally, or sexually during his stay.

I am being completely honest when I say I did not witness any abuse. But then again, it depends on what your definition of abuse is. My definition is something that you could call the police and report an assault, something that is illegal. I know many posters here consider being kept in a program against your will abusive, some people consider group therapy psychological abuse, some people consider isolation abuse, and some people think not being allowed to masturbate is sexual abuse. I get all that, but I can't say " I was abused", and feel like I'm being honest. I was treated in a strict way, because I had proven many times over that I could not be trusted with my own freedoms. So they took those freedoms away from me, which also included taking the freedom for me to destroy myself.

I never saw abuse in the program. I did see restraints, but they were all for a good reason. I never saw staff hitting staff with mean intentions, or anything like that. When people talk about child abuse, it means a parent hitting their kid with a belt, or something like that. The word abuse here is watered down to a degree, that I don't think sometimes we are even talking about the same thing. Psy says he was abused in a treatment center, how? What incident exactly qualifies as "abuse", you can't just say everyone in a program is being abused and not back it up with something. I am going on my own experience and what I saw. I'm not saying it was all cake and ice cream all the time, some difficult things happened, as you would expect when a large group of troubled teens is located in one facility. But mean spirited, outright abuse? I never saw any of that. If illegal abuse is happening in all programs right now, why don't you all just call the cops?  Because child abuse is illegal, and if you know it's happening make the call and get the to arrest the people. Arguing with me isn't going to help any kids.

Yet, he passes his experience off as a positive one and makes no effort to consider the feelings and emotions of his fellow detainees who were abused.

This comes up a lot on fornits. I should shut up and keep my opinions to myself, lest I hurt the feelings of the poor, fragile victims of programs. Look around, this is fornits, a place that says it welcomes all opinions and has no moderation. People are free to start their own threads, and post all they want, right? Well I'll post my opinions and they can post there's, that's exactly what this forum is designed for. It's not my fault none of them show up to talk about it.

He doesn't even consider it abusive that he witnessed abuse. What does that tell you about his ability to put his experience into perspective?

Correct. I view abuse as an illegal assault, something you could be arrested or cited for by official law enforcement agencies or child protective services.I thought about it for a long time, and realized even if I had a cell phone in the program, I couldn't have called the cops or CPS for anything. Many posters here think what goes on is unethical, fair enough, but it's not illegal child abuse. If it were, somebody would call the cops on every program out there. But it's all legal, so if you guys want that changed go become a legislator or something and stop wasting your time with me.

I suppose if I never had a conscience in the first place, and was too stupid to understand the concept of psychological abuse and its implications regarding developing teens, then I might feel exactly the way Max feels.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[DannyB II]

FWIW:  I don't think this is really about Che drinking rather DannyB II getting attention on fornits (Danny knows this).  What is he trying to accomplish?  Is he focused on the important issues {closing abusive programs}?  I don't think he is.  Whereas I think most people would agree he has exhibited a pattern of disrespect and lack of focus.  This isn't the only website he's done this on:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 2373072738 ( Danny )

I think the best plan of action would be to ignore Danny's negative behaviors.  

"sweet cheeks"

Joel,

This is Danny's way of discrediting people and trying to get them embroiled into nonsensical arguments. He's derailed and destroyed several other forums this way. Better off just ignoring him.

No, this is Danny destroying your credibility, Che. You seem to think you are a expert on the TTI no matter what forum your speaking on. You seem to think you can say whatever you want, to whoever you please, however you want to say it. I am here to counter that and keep you honest. Especially when it comes to matters I feel are important.
You started this fight dip-shit so deal with it and stop crying. Please tell your brother that anytime he would like to grow a pair, we would all appreciate it.

Danny, your tough guy posturing really isn't doing you much in the way of crediting your argument. In the future I'm going to have to insist you refrain from attempting to bully others into submission. It hasn't yet worked for you on these forums and neither will it.

Well let me say this to ya my friend, when you want to stop bullying and controlling people you don't agree with or like (because you don't agree with them), I'll do it. Until then Che, you will be given what you give. I did not know this is what it was called Che, I am just doing the same thing you do /did to fellow members you don't like.
Why is it when you fuckers get what you give to others you start crying on the boards and I am sure in your case Che, wearing Ginger and Psy out with your chronic sniveling.
You don't hear me crying and since day one I have heard nothing else but how it is my fault, I do this and I do that.

Danny is not a tough guy and has never thought it was a plausible avenue to build credibility. Bullying, nope got the wrong guy, sorry. Read your paragraph Che, your almost contradicting yourself. One sentence, your saying I am attempting to bully folks into submission and in another, your saying it has not work and never will. Well if it is an attempt that is not happening and never will, then in essence you have something that never happened.
So why even bring it up, dip shit. This is what I mean about you, you are the instigator.

[Che Gookin]

FWIW:  I don't think this is really about Che drinking rather DannyB II getting attention on fornits (Danny knows this).  What is he trying to accomplish?  Is he focused on the important issues {closing abusive programs}?  I don't think he is.  Whereas I think most people would agree he has exhibited a pattern of disrespect and lack of focus.  This isn't the only website he's done this on:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 2373072738 ( Danny )

I think the best plan of action would be to ignore Danny's negative behaviors.  

"sweet cheeks"

Joel,

This is Danny's way of discrediting people and trying to get them embroiled into nonsensical arguments. He's derailed and destroyed several other forums this way. Better off just ignoring him.

No, this is Danny destroying your credibility, Che. You seem to think you are a expert on the TTI no matter what forum your speaking on. You seem to think you can say whatever you want, to whoever you please, however you want to say it. I am here to counter that and keep you honest. Especially when it comes to matters I feel are important.
You started this fight dip-shit so deal with it and stop crying. Please tell your brother that anytime he would like to grow a pair, we would all appreciate it.

Danny, your tough guy posturing really isn't doing you much in the way of crediting your argument. In the future I'm going to have to insist you refrain from attempting to bully others into submission. It hasn't yet worked for you on these forums and neither will it.

Well let me say this to ya my friend, when you want to stop bullying and controlling people you don't agree with or like (because you don't agree with them), I'll do it. Until then Che, you will be given what you give. I did not know this is what it was called Che, I am just doing the same thing you do /did to fellow members you don't like.
Why is it when you fuckers get what you give to others you start crying on the boards and I am sure in your case Che, wearing Ginger and Psy out with your chronic sniveling.
You don't hear me crying and since day one I have heard nothing else but how it is my fault, I do this and I do that.

Danny is not a tough guy and has never thought it was a plausible avenue to build credibility. Bullying, nope got the wrong guy, sorry. Read your paragraph Che, your almost contradicting yourself. One sentence, your saying I am attempting to bully folks into submission and in another, your saying it has not work and never will. Well if it is an attempt that is not happening and never will, then in essence you have something that never happened.
So why even bring it up, dip shit. This is what I mean about you, you are the instigator.

Danny, your inability to express yourself appropriately will make it so The Consequences Will Never Be The Same. Your upcoming treatment team meeting is most likely going to result in sanctions and possible loss of home visit. Right now you need to process your feelings regarding this possible loss of home visit and begin showing compliance with the program. Failure to show compliance will result in an unspecified period of time in which you'll be placed on non-communication with the rest of the group.

Your fate is in your own hands.

[liarsexposed]

Holiday Weekend
Mr popular Danny (the liar) Bennison is (of course) Trolling fornits as a result of his inability to co-exist in teh real world,with real people.
Bennison.. You need fucking help. Dont you ever quit ? Is this a replacement  (transferrence) for your Herion Habit ?
I mean really.. Every thread every day ? Even when Sharon and I or Mark were at our worst,collectively we never posted the sheer number of posts you are responsible for every fucking day
WTF is wrong with you Bennison ?
Is anyone else seeing a pattern here ?
Bless you Danny.. you are injured

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Che Gookin]

Holiday Weekend
Mr popular Danny (the liar) Bennison is (of course) Trolling fornits as a result of his inability to co-exist in teh real world,with real people.
Bennison.. You need fucking help. Dont you ever quit ? Is this a replacement  (transferrence) for your Herion Habit ?
I mean really.. Every thread every day ? Even when Sharon and I or Mark were at our worst,collectively we never posted the sheer number of posts you are responsible for every fucking day
WTF is wrong with you Bennison ?
Is anyone else seeing a pattern here ?
Bless you Danny.. you are injured

[RTP2003]

Danny has a problem getting an erection, which is why he is so vitriolic (look it up, Danny) toward female posters here on Fornits.......

[DannyB II]

Danny I read on http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopi ... 4035#p6540 you talked about "healing through words."  I encourage you to do the same on fornits.  [I am not being sarcastic].  Danny it would be great to see your input in the ELAN forum [on fornits], excluding flaming, personal attacks etc.

Joel, the Elan Alum and the facebook, Elan Site, are not even close to comparison to this site. First off I am amongst friends there, unless the Elanians from here straggle over there. I have told you before there are so many Elan folks who I fraternize with on a daily bases. Some of them only post on Elan Alum and others only post on the Facebook Elan Site, most do not post here at all and never have.
I came here to fornits by way of Felice, so that should tell you a lot. What I found here were a bunch of rude, sarcastic, degrading posters just fucking with certain people. Nothing has really changed, most of you are still in denial of how you act towards people and you really have no intention of changing your behavior.
I don't fit in and piss you off because I am attacking the "attackers". I purposely went after the posters who enjoy fucking with people, Joel you are one of them. Read your history.
Now if you would like to "turn the page" I am all for it. Start by changing yourself. Stop with the flaming, personal attacks, unruly PM's, ganging up on other posters, degrading new posters (children, mothers and fathers) and I will have no problem accommodating. Stop pointing the finger. Do not fuck with people who do not have your opinions.
If you can do this, I am in on your party wagon, if not then stop asking me to do something you are unwilling to do.

[DannyB II]

Holiday Weekend
Mr popular Danny (the liar) Bennison is (of course) Trolling fornits as a result of his inability to co-exist in teh real world,with real people.
Bennison.. You need fucking help. Dont you ever quit ? Is this a replacement  (transferrence) for your Herion Habit ?
I mean really.. Every thread every day ? Even when Sharon and I or Mark were at our worst,collectively we never posted the sheer number of posts you are responsible for every fucking day
WTF is wrong with you Bennison ?
Is anyone else seeing a pattern here ?
Bless you Danny.. you are injured

Che, you can not be serious.

[DannyB II]

Che wrote:
Danny, your inability to express yourself appropriately will make it so The Consequences Will Never Be The Same. Your upcoming treatment team meeting is most likely going to result in sanctions and possible loss of home visit. Right now you need to process your feelings regarding this possible loss of home visit and begin showing compliance with the program. Failure to show compliance will result in an unspecified period of time in which you'll be placed on non-communication with the rest of the group.

Your fate is in your own hands.

Che, you really should be careful how you relate to survivors here, we are a sensitive lot. This type of language you chose to use with me (above) is very disrespectful. I believe it could only come from someone who was a Staff Member, why would you want to talk down to someone who suffered under such dehumanizing conditions. Are you not a moderator here on this Web Site. Is this the way you are going to publicize your redeeming qualities as a moderator.
Thank you very much for bringing back into focus a time in my life that was very traumatizing and belittling me for it.

[Eliscu2]

::evil::

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[DannyB II]

Danny I read on http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopi ... 4035#p6540 you talked about "healing through words."  I encourage you to do the same on fornits.  [I am not being sarcastic].  Danny it would be great to see your input in the ELAN forum [on fornits], excluding flaming, personal attacks etc.

Joel, the Elan Alum and the facebook, Elan Site, are not even close to comparison to this site. First off I am amongst friends there, unless the Elanians from here straggle over there. I have told you before there are so many Elan folks who I fraternize with on a daily bases. Some of them only post on Elan Alum and others only post on the Facebook Elan Site, most do not post here at all and never have.
I came here to fornits by way of Felice, so that should tell you a lot. What I found here were a bunch of rude, sarcastic, degrading posters just fucking with certain people. Nothing has really changed, most of you are still in denial of how you act towards people and you really have no intention of changing your behavior.
I don't fit in and piss you off because I am attacking the "attackers". I purposely went after the posters who enjoy fucking with people, Joel you are one of them. Read your history.
Now if you would like to "turn the page" I am all for it. Start by changing yourself. Stop with the flaming, personal attacks, unruly PM's, ganging up on other posters, degrading new posters (children, mothers and fathers) and I will have no problem accommodating. Stop pointing the finger. Do not fuck with people who do not have your opinions.
If you can do this, I am in on your party wagon, if not then stop asking me to do something you are unwilling to do.

Danny we will see how this works.  I already have reservations in lieu of your profane response.  Whereas I am still willing to work with you. The real test is whether or not you can ignore other people's attacks and refrain from bullying. I will speak to you again in one week about this process.  

Hey Joel, why don't you do this stop communicating with me totally. Just go away. I think that would work well, you do not need to follow up in a week.
Just worry about Joel, spend your time working on shutting down Eckard. Become a positive force here like your brother.