Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Facility Question and Answers

Vantage Point, Utah (Aspiro)

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physics_gal:
Their web site (remove the spaces):
http: //www. vantagept. org/home

What do you think of this program? Does anyone have experience with it?

The web site is very "positive"-oriented, with lots of talk about how kids will learn "self-efficacy" and stating outright that they don't try to "break" kids.

On the other hand, some really troubling signs...

--Average cost seems to be around $30k, a huge amount of money
--Parent communication is limited; one letter a week, and the kid has to be approved to make phone calls--censoring is very possible
--Some of the activities described include things like hiking... high altitude, long distance; enjoyable for me but I walk a few miles every day for fun; these kids may not be
--They include "primitive living skills" as an activity... red flag for me.
--They accept a wide variety of problems... this inevitably means that the gullible, socially clumsy autistic kid will be in with the charismatic class bully...
--There's no mention of accredited school being available. This is a long-term program; there really should be, or the kids would fall behind academically. The only useful education they seem to get is half a credit of English.
--There are some grammatical and spelling errors on the web page.
--The program seems highly physically demanding; a 10 mile hike mightn't be bad, but three days in a row, with a heavy backpack?... With teens who may very well be unused to walking even one mile, and constantly outdoors? There seems to be potential for abuse here, but whether it's exploited is the question...

I'm asking about this because I want to know whether I should be worried about being associated with this program... I have friends who have been victims of institutional abuse, and have experienced some myself, and do not want to do anything that could possibly make the problem worse.

Thoughts?

psy:
I would worry about being associated with any program.  You can be 90% sure that a program is relatively safe but you can never truly be sure.  That being said i'd say the #1 red flag is the communications thing.  There is no legitimate purpose for such action that justifies the risk it creates.

Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

Pile of Dead Kids:
First off, welcome to Fornits.

Censoring isn't "very possible"; it's what's happening. Phone calls are monitored, bet on it.

Your post can be summarized as "Hmm, it looks like there might be a fair chance of a kid being abused. Should a kid be sent there?" Are you really typing that? Whose kid is this, anyway? (That's the normal reason people ask questions about programs on Fornits, unless you're planning on being associated with them in some other capacity. In which case, consider infiltration.)

Your name is physics_gal so you probably have some concept of experimental procedure. No reliable studies have been done showing that these places actually work. Every time a new "study" pops out of the woodwork, it turns out to be sponsored by the programs, of dubious quality, results cherry-picked or pulled from thin air, etc, etc. The closest anyone has ever come to an overall study is probably this (Government Accountability Office).

Also, just an FYI: if they kill him, his name's going on the list.

physics_gal:
Is there somebody I can PM about this stuff? I don't want them knowing who's making inquiries.

And yeah, I'm well aware there's no proof these programs work. I think that just about any program that doesn't take place in "real life" or do anything to repair the family system is going to be useless for anything other than crisis stabilization. I think residential treatment in general, whether the clients are disabled, mentally ill, or "troubled teens", has too much of a power differential between the staff and the clients to be a useful treatment method beyond the limited (and again, ideally very short-term) application of resolving suicidal crisis or preventing dangerous situations resulting from psychosis.

I did put down "physics gal" for a name, and that's my main focus, but I've studied psychology quite a bit... think of me as a bit of an all-purpose nerd.

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