Post your positive program experiences

[Samara]

That is disingenuous and shows a blatant disregard for all the people who have been abused in these programs. It is not as if these programs suffered isolated incidences that we can move past. This site is not for people who mitigate abuse. And like Fox news, you are not here for fair and balanced reporting. You show a total lack of empathy as well as a truly gifted talent for dishonesty. Your calling is politics, not Fornits.

[Whooter]

That is disingenuous and shows a blatant disregard for all the people who have been abused in these programs. It is not as if these programs suffered isolated incidences that we can move past. This site is not for people who mitigate abuse. And like Fox news, you are not here for fair and balanced reporting. You show a total lack of empathy as well as a truly gifted talent for dishonesty. Your calling is politics, not Fornits.

I am not disregarding the kids who were hurt.  You think that I am pro abuse then you must be pro abuse yourself.  But why not recognize those who were helped?  Why pretend that the industry doesnt help people?  Why ignore the papers and studies... the accounts by posters and parents who come to fornits?  What are you afraid of?

When you pretend that the entire industry is bad and refuse to discuss the studies "You" are the one who is being dishonest, Samara.  Do you see what I mean?  It depends on your vantage point.  I see most posters here as dishonest (yourself included) because you only post one side of the story and thereby mislead the readers.



...

[Froderik]

This thread could be deep sixed. Fornits was never intended to be pro-program. There are other sites for that. It's not about censorship - it's about specificity.  It is gut churning to read the BS promoted by industry trolls with a derailment agenda.  It really makes no sense for Whootie and the Suck Fish to reside at this site.

No one cares if you ate cake once a year, sang "O Happy Day", and liked the special gorp offered on Sundays. Those marginal incidences are are not germane to the reality that programs were holistically, systemically, and systematically twisted and fraudulent.   I will never forget the persistent, pervasive feeling of anxiety that consumed you 24/7 and the constant hope that while today might be a brainwashing day,  perhaps it won't be your "target" day.  TBS's were places that never made sense because every directive and exercise is arbitrary.  People who are chronically demeaned and expected to live a lie over a period of years do not leave whole. I can forgive my own experience. I cannot forgive what has happened to others.

You could argue all the shit you want about public schools, but at least they existed somewhat along society's proven function/dysfunction.

TBS's forced you to live white in a black world or black in a white world and when you got out, you had no coping skills for the real world.  You didn't even have yourself.  

What I especially resent is Suck It's trenchant belief that we all deserved to be psychologically abused and disembodied.  Most kids I knew at the program were not on the road to jail, death, or insanity. That is part of the myth.

I was not a "bad" kid. My ethics often outweighed the polo wearing honor students who looked good on paper but who were faithless to their friends and public values.

If a kid is truly bad, a TBS is a sociopath's haven.  

For sure, there are deeply troubled teens (and adults) out there. Good parenting from the outset is needed. Mentors are needed. Transcendental experiences are needed.  Maybe a good program is needed - like art or music or oceanography. You don't dump them down the rabbit hole with no advocacy or recourses.

Sometimes you ride out the storm and let the consequences be natural.  Sometimes problems have no answers.

Excellent post.

Better reading than anything written by "Whooter."

[Troll Control]

Speaking of "misleading the readers"...

Check it out.

[Froderik]

Speaking of "misleading the readers"...

Check it out.

There seems to be a bit of intrigue associated with this "Whooter" character...  :nods:

[Troll Control]

Please, Frod, stop over to the thread and post your POV on the troll known as Whooter, et al.  It will become a more interesting read if there are multiple primary sources.

[Froderik]

Please, Frod, stop over to the thread and post your POV on the troll known as Whooter, et al.  It will become a more interesting read if there are multiple primary sources.

Thanks, DJ... time is tight, but I'll do what i can...

Let's keep at it, though!  ::evil::

[Anne Bonney]

That is disingenuous and shows a blatant disregard for all the people who have been abused in these programs. It is not as if these programs suffered isolated incidences that we can move past. This site is not for people who mitigate abuse. And like Fox news, you are not here for fair and balanced reporting. You show a total lack of empathy as well as a truly gifted talent for dishonesty. Your calling is politics, not Fornits.

I am not disregarding the kids who were hurt.  You think that I am pro abuse then you must be pro abuse yourself.  But why not recognize those who were helped?  Why pretend that the industry doesnt help people?  Why ignore the papers and studies... the accounts by posters and parents who come to fornits?  What are you afraid of?

When you pretend that the entire industry is bad and refuse to discuss the studies "You" are the one who is being dishonest, Samara.  Do you see what I mean?  It depends on your vantage point.  I see most posters here as dishonest (yourself included) because you only post one side of the story and thereby mislead the readers.

Was it your son or a daughter that ASR provided this great "help" to?

[Whooter]

Please, Frod, stop over to the thread and post your POV on the troll known as Whooter, et al.  It will become a more interesting read if there are multiple primary sources.

 Run over to the other thread like DJ told you to.  He needs people to support his ego and rant to try to cover up his past.  Nod your head alot and tell him that Whooter is a bad person and that you really believe that DJ has lots of advanced degrees.  You will make his day.

I will add a few links to help the thread along myself.



...

[Anne Bonney]

Please, Frod, stop over to the thread and post your POV on the troll known as Whooter, et al.  It will become a more interesting read if there are multiple primary sources.

 Run over to the other thread like DJ told you to.  He needs people to support his ego and rant to try to cover up his past.  Nod your head alot and tell him that Whooter is a bad person and that you really believe that DJ has lots of advanced degrees.  You will make his day.

I will add a few links to help the thread along myself.



...

Did you have a son or a daughter in an Aspen program?

[DannyB II]

This thread could be deep sixed. Fornits was never intended to be pro-program. There are other sites for that. It's not about censorship - it's about specificity.  It is gut churning to read the BS promoted by industry trolls with a derailment agenda.  It really makes no sense for Whootie and the Suck Fish to reside at this site.

WoW, you really are a prejudice, you have absolutely no proof of what you just accused these two gentlemen of yet you feel justified calling them horrible names.

No one cares if you ate cake once a year, sang "O Happy Day", and liked the special group offered on Sundays. Those marginal incidences are are not germane to the reality that programs were holistically, systemically, and systematically twisted and fraudulent.   I will never forget the persistent, pervasive feeling of anxiety that consumed you 24/7 and the constant hope that while today might be a brainwashing day,  perhaps it won't be your "target" day.  TBS's were places that never made sense because every directive and exercise is arbitrary.  People who are chronically demeaned and expected to live a lie over a period of years do not leave whole. I can forgive my own experience. I cannot forgive what has happened to others.

You may not care about cake but many others do, especially when they were presented the cake by there peers. Marginal incidences, your bias is borderline "hysteria".
Samara, you only know your experience. Speculation/relating is used when considering what others went through. I personally went through one of the worst violent hellholes god put on this planet, yet I do not believe I understand how it affected others until they tell me. I personally believe that most folks here have not a clue as to why they ended up where they did, all the circumstances that lead to the decision your parents made. Obviously something was happening at home, Samara, that ignited your parents or others to take action. I am not saying you deserved the treatment you received by the program you were in but I wonder, if you really needed help and it was provided by a responsible program, would we still be having this conversation. Would you have a different opinion about possible problems you had.

You could argue all the shit you want about public schools, but at least they existed somewhat along society's proven function/dysfunction.

No they did not, they are not much different then going to a fucking shit hole TBS program. Some are better then others and then some a great. Jesus what public school did you go to. Travel Samara, ride around our lovely cities in America, look at some of are high schools. You will be amased, yes they have come a long ways since the blight of the 70's and 80's but there is still some crap out there.

TBS's forced you to live white in a black world or black in a white world and when you got out, you had no coping skills for the real world.  You didn't even have yourself.  

What I especially resent is Suck It's trenchant belief that we all deserved to be psychologically abused and disembodied.  Most kids I knew at the program were not on the road to jail, death, or insanity. That is part of the myth.

You are making this up inside your head. This is a "Pavlov" reaction to a unconditional response. You have programmed yourself to have this reaction whenever someone talks about there positive experience.

I was not a "bad" kid. My ethics often outweighed the polo wearing honor students who looked good on paper but who were faithless to their friends and public values.

Nobody said you were a bad kid, "God does not make trash", nobody is bad. Elan never got me to believe it but my family did. You have to ask yourself what was going on at home that was so bad that it caused you to start reacting or did you have social disorders that scared your parents. Samara, something was happening.

If a kid is truly bad, a TBS is a sociopath's haven.  

For sure, there are deeply troubled teens (and adults) out there. Good parenting from the outset is needed. Mentors are needed. Transcendental experiences are needed.  Maybe a good program is needed - like art or music or oceanography. You don't dump them down the rabbit hole with no advocacy or recourses.

There are good programs out there but you don't care about them. You have been scarred and it has blinded your vision.

Sometimes you ride out the storm and let the consequences be natural.  Sometimes problems have no answers.

Samara we are not talking about that here though, we are talking about children who do need help and were not getting it with the old traditional methodologies of the past 40 years now the programs are changing their behavioral methods are adapting to the children needs.

"This thread could be deep sixed. Fornits was never intended to be pro-program. There are other sites for that. It's not about censorship - it's about specificity.  It is gut churning to read the BS promoted by industry trolls with a derailment agenda.  It really makes no sense for Whootie and the Suck Fish to reside at this site."

 

"READ" !!!!!!

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora

"An open discussion about the troubled parent industry"

[RobertBruce]

I am not disregarding the kids who were hurt.

You unequivocally do this. Have you forgotten when you claimed that every kid who claimed he or she had been abused in the TBS was lying? If that isn't diregarding then what is?

And for your edification Danny, I attended public school, and it was much better/safer than the TBS I was locked in. Even if my own experiences weren't the norm though, the numbers prove that Public Schools are far safer than the the TBS.

[SUCK IT]

This thread could be deleted with one click of a button by the admins here. But fornits credibility would vanish just as quickly as this thread did, if they choose that route. I don't believe this thread will be deep sixed, because I believe I have a fundamentally better understanding of the intentions of this forum than many of the other users. I have researched it, read through the entire FAQ and terms of service. Guess what? The people who own this site, welcome and entourage all people to post here. There is nothing in there about this being a anti program forum, go look for yourself if you don't believe me.

Everything I've posted in this thread is accurate and true, and yes it really happened. If you can't understand that sometimes little things in life are a big deal, then congratulate yourself on having a relatively easy life. People who have been in stressful situations and scared, and confused know that a simple action can have a tremendously profound impact. If you don't like this thread, go start a thread about negative experiences. I will continue to post my positive experiences in this thread, even if nobody else posts here but me. I really don't care, because I know what I went through and how to interpret my experience in an honest way, and share it with others. Isn't that what this discussion forum is all about? I suppose that depends on your perspective on why this forum exists in the first place.

[DannyB II]

I am not disregarding the kids who were hurt.

You unequivocally do this. Have you forgotten when you claimed that every kid who claimed he or she had been abused in the TBS was lying? If that isn't diregarding then what is?

And for your edification Danny, I attended public school, and it was much better/safer than the TBS I was locked in. Even if my own experiences weren't the norm though, the numbers prove that Public Schools are far safer than the the TBS.

  Think, Robert, a lot your trouble probably started in that school and you were there for a short period of time.

[Samara]

Wow, DB. This is just an exercise in freaking futility. I'm not saying that some kids don't need help. I'm saying that abusive and demeaning methodology is not the answer. I also would have characterized the program as "positive" even though I SPLIT. Brainwash. I could NOT deal with the fact that all that emotional rape was for nothing.  I can take it now.  And no, I don't buy that a program reliant on fraudulent and unethical practices applied in systemic emotional warfare "saves lives." Even if you say so.

As far as Whooter is concerned, I think it's a bit hypocritical that you lambaste my words when I show far, far more restraint than most and CERTAINLY more than you do. The proof is in the pudding. I was silent about Whooter for years, but  after watching the derailment and obfuscations recur in predictible patterns has affected my opinion of him. It's not paranoia or quick judgment. It's not even based on the idea that he differs in opinion.  I am a little shocked that you haven't seen the obvious patterns.  I think that if you were really honest, you might evaluate your own biases. It is a bit odd you exhibit exponential projective capacities.

You're kind of a moron for thinking I don't travel or expose myself to other walks of lives. I've lived in six states. I've traveled extensively in the US and abroad, including third world countries.  I've worked at homeless shelters. I've taught at public schools. I've taught at runaway shelters.  I actually prefer working with the "disadvantaged" kids.

I did not program myself to have a Pavlovian response to anything but people mitigating painful, horrific experiences.

And don't you dare fucking insinuate that I deserved to be in a program. You have no idea why I was there. I've never even shoplifted. Both my parents would say it was a mistake on their part. But frankly, the program I was in was a warehouse filled with kids from well to do families that were bored by the demands of parenting.  I'm not saying that is true of every program, but it was common in mine.

In any event, cake can compensate for a lot, but not for sustained program  BS.

And as far as Fornits being obligated to be bipartisan - more BS. This forum worked best when it was true haven for survivors and advocacy - unfortunately, this has dimished in the past few years.  Pro program BS'ers can post their reunion raps somewhere else as far as I am concerned. Enjoy the cake.